Hi everyone
I have been asked if my torts are "Dwarf Hermann Hermanni"? Is there such a species? How would I know if they are or not?
Thanks
Jeanette xx
Dwarf Hermanni?
Started by
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, Feb 02 2012 11:20 PM
31 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_JEANETTE_*
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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:21 PM
I know they are hermanni by the way.. it's just the Dwarf bit???
#3
Guest_mildredsmam_*
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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:02 AM
morning jeanette technically there is no dwarf hermann tortoise, sometimes the subspecies th hermanni is referred to as a dwarf as they can be smaller hope this helps alittle 
#4
Guest_Freddy McGavin_*
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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:42 AM
Hi Jeanette,
As Karen says dwarf hermanni are a smaller sub-species of hermanns tortoise. They are also known as western hermanns because they come from western Europe. When you were posting your ad selling your hatchlings you mentioned 3 hermann hermanni hatchlings for sale. This was probably the mix up as hermanni hermanni are the smaller western tortoises I just mentioned. I recall Bruce saying on the same thread that he thought your hatchlings were Boettgeri or the eastern hermanns sub-species. I hope this helps clarify things. Take care Jeanette.
Kind Regards
Freddy
As Karen says dwarf hermanni are a smaller sub-species of hermanns tortoise. They are also known as western hermanns because they come from western Europe. When you were posting your ad selling your hatchlings you mentioned 3 hermann hermanni hatchlings for sale. This was probably the mix up as hermanni hermanni are the smaller western tortoises I just mentioned. I recall Bruce saying on the same thread that he thought your hatchlings were Boettgeri or the eastern hermanns sub-species. I hope this helps clarify things. Take care Jeanette.
Kind Regards
Freddy
#5
Guest_meimnot76_*
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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:56 PM
Not to confuse matters more but I have a book and it says that there's also a dwarf version of the hermanii hermanii living in southern Sardinia called T. Hermanni Sarda
#6
Guest_JEANETTE_*
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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:01 PM
I think i will take some clear pics of cola and ask some advice which species she is... her certificate states hermann hermanni but i suppose they can put anything.. she is very small though and is 6 in june x
#7
Guest_Freddy McGavin_*
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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:52 PM
I think i will take some clear pics of cola and ask some advice which species she is... her certificate states hermann hermanni but i suppose they can put anything.. she is very small though and is 6 in june x
Sounds like a great idea Jeanette! Often torts can have 'hermann hermanni' on their certificates as a general description. I suspect this together with your question about the 'dwarf 'hermanns or 'hermanni hermanni' sub-species is at the root of the problem. Best of luck.
Freddy
#8
Guest_hermann bruce_*
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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:54 PM
Hi the western hermanni hermanni females will only lay 1 to 2 eggs at a time. Where as the boettgri can lay up to 12 eggs at at time. The other eastern sub lays 2 to 3 eggs attime.like I said before I think they r boettgri. Just by the number of hatchlings u have
#9
Guest_mildredsmam_*
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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:40 AM
morning from what bruce is saying sounds like you have thb ,i would post some pictures anyway just to be sure i think it will be better for you knowing what subspecies you have so that you can give the right information out when you come to sell the hatchlings take care
#10
Guest_hermann bruce_*
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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:53 AM
how many eggs dose she lay in a cluch?
#11
Guest_JEANETTE_*
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Posted 04 February 2012 - 04:51 PM
Normally she lays 4 at a time but once she laid 6!! I thought thb's were really big? and not as stripey as Cola? I must get some pics.. xx
#12
Guest_hermann bruce_*
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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:00 PM
the westerns are more domed at the front of the shell.they have a key hole type marking on her rear scute.they are almost completly black underneath.
#13
Guest_helsbells_*
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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:06 PM
On all my torts A10 it says Hermann's Hermanni but mine have been i'd as Hercegovinesis and Bottgeri
#14
Guest_19Kel71_*
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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:03 PM
That's interesting to know..... maybe Norman's not a common old Hermanni Hermanni after all then..... Can anyone tell what he is from the photos I've already posted on this forum? If not I'll have to post a few pics from all angles and see if you can identify his subspecies for me too.
#15
Guest_JEANETTE_*
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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:16 PM
Do people mate THB & THH etc.. I suppose people do without knowing.. If so what are they known as? THB/h? he he Cola's boyfriend Mr Malibu is identical to Cola so I know he is also a THB phew!!! x
#16
Guest_Hettie_*
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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:59 PM
Hi Jeanette,
I have just posted in another post that Bailey and Boo have turned out to be boys (THB) they will grow much too big to be kept with my TH Herc females and would damage them during mating. So although I am devastated I am going to have to rehome them before they become trouble!
If it had been the other way round that the THB were female (and therefore bigger) and the Herc were male, this particular problem wouldn't be an issue. It is said not to mix subspecies, I wonder how many are out there unaware of the problems that might come later as they grow due to not knowing the subspecies?
Paula x
I have just posted in another post that Bailey and Boo have turned out to be boys (THB) they will grow much too big to be kept with my TH Herc females and would damage them during mating. So although I am devastated I am going to have to rehome them before they become trouble!
If it had been the other way round that the THB were female (and therefore bigger) and the Herc were male, this particular problem wouldn't be an issue. It is said not to mix subspecies, I wonder how many are out there unaware of the problems that might come later as they grow due to not knowing the subspecies?
Paula x
#17
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Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:05 PM
Oh no Paula... you must feel awful having to rehome Baily and Boo.. do they get that much bigger then? Have you thought where they will go?
I was really ignorant about what sub species Cola was so I can imagine loads of people never ask the question and happily house them together and allow them to mate.
Please let us know how things go with Bailey & Boo xxx
I was really ignorant about what sub species Cola was so I can imagine loads of people never ask the question and happily house them together and allow them to mate.
Please let us know how things go with Bailey & Boo xxx
#18
Guest_mildredsmam_*
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Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:29 AM
,jeanette i think some people will have different subspecies together with out even knowing it,it is hard to tell the different subs i still have to post pics and ive looked into this loads paula i bet it will be hard for you to rehome baily and boo 
paula i bet it will be hard for you to rehome baily and boo
#19
Guest_Freddy McGavin_*
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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:57 AM
I am hopeless at ID'ing torts. Bruce is very good though!
Kind Regards
Freddy
Bruce is very good though! Kind Regards
Freddy
#20
Guest_meimnot76_*
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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:57 PM
I think that this may help http://www.shelledwa...hread.php?t=243 I had bookmarked it to identify mine but forgot all about it until seeing this post! I always though mine was a TBH, but now I think that it may actually be a THHerc.
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