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Subspecies Id Please


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#1 Sheli88

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:46 PM

Pictures on reply below :)



#2 Sheli88

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:49 PM

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#3 Beermat89

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:41 PM

I was thinking along the same lines as you ozric thats its a hybrid,the scutes are very unusal lay out
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#4 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:15 AM

Pictures on reply below :)

Difficult to say at this stage, but looking more Th hercegovinensis at this stage. The dark plastron is typical amongst all the subspecies. Is it captive bred?



#5 Sheli88

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:02 AM

Yes, from a UK breeder Sue :)



#6 mildredsmam

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:19 AM

hi if its from a breeder then they should know what subspecies it is, can you not ask them. :)



#7 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:37 AM

Yes, I would ask them the subspecies. The certs will not show subspecies, just hermanns tortoise, but the breeder will presumably know what he/she is breeding ;)



#8 Sheli88

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:59 AM

Baby is meant to be THB, but I've had 8+ people now (on various forums and facebook groups etc) ID as THHerc, or a cross THB/THHerc.

He is very quiet and not like my other 2, also not gaining weight as well as I would like (16g, a year old, about 3.6cm SLC).

He's not really grown much since I got him at the beginning of the year.  



#9 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:45 PM

That does not sound good Shelli. Have you got back to the breeder? Are they possibly crossing subspecies without realising it? If so, they really ought to get correct ID's on the adults and split them as appropriate before letting them breed as this seems to be an increasing problem with some inexperienced breeders and given that DEFRA do not ask for subspecies, it is making control of responsible breeding difficult.  How are you keeping it. That is very small, most breeders don't let them go so tiny. I like to keep mine to around 40 grams before going. There are occasionally some that do not thrive, regardless of being hybrid etc but running them on for a while stops them going out too soon. I would definitely be getting back to the breeder about this as they may not be aware of a problem.



#10 Sheli88

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

I'm not sure, I have been trying to get hold of the breeder but no luck yet.

 

He lives in a rabbit type cage, on soil, weed only diet with vits, baths, outside when warm etc, all the same as my bigger two and they are growing well (slowly but surely).



#11 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:31 PM

Are you giving him a basking spot of 30-32 C when indoors and keeping his substrate slightly moist?   A decent breeder should have given you several points of contact for emergencies etc. I would get back to them ASAP and let them know that something is not quite right here. How old was he when he was sold? Hopefully things will pick up for you very soon. I would not attempt to hibernate this little one this year.



#12 Sheli88

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:32 PM

Yeah 32c and I spray the soil. 

 

Cert says July 2012, which would have made him 7 months when I got him. 



#13 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:05 AM

Yeah 32c and I spray the soil. 

 

Cert says July 2012, which would have made him 7 months when I got him. 

They should have realised that this little one was not thriving to still be that weight at 7 months. I like to grow mine slowly, but the initial weight gain is more rapid than when they get going and become more active.

I would water the soil, not spray it. Spraying is lost to the air straight away leaving the soil underneath still dry. You need to have the base damp and the top dryer, so they can reach the humid areas when digging down. It needs to be deep enough to do this obviously. You will see much better shell growth for it too generally ;)



#14 Sheli88

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:38 PM

Thanks Sue, I will water the soil from now on then :)

 

Spoke to the breeder today and he said he is definitely a THB. 



#15 shaz

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:30 PM

I spray my soil, just make sure u turn it over as doing so. dont take long for top to dry out when the light are on it



#16 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:44 PM

To be honest I would not turn the soil - it needs to be dry on top and stay moist underneath - turning it will cause it to dry all over and not to remain as solid as they like it. This is why it needs to be watered, not sprayed ;)
Is your breeder a recognised breeder Shelli88 or a novice? They might not even know the differences.

#17 shaz

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:15 PM

It don't take long to dry again on the top. Its patted down again after. :-D

#18 Guest_Stella_*

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:56 PM

The soil can appear decievingly wet. I always water my outside enclosure every night ... Unless rain is forecasted'.
I discovered mounds of soil, although appeared damp and were very compacted actually an inch underneath was bone dry and powdery. I had to dig in, the best I could without much disturbance, so the soil was wet through x x x hugs x x

#19 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:10 PM

That's right, it actually needs to be damp on the base, just the same as a garden. If it is not deep enough, it will not work, just the same as spraying won't. If it needs to be turned over, it's not working. It's like watering a plant in a pot, it's always damper at the bottom ;)

#20 shaz

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:28 PM

It dont need to be turned over as its still damper under the top bit. Can see by the colour, its darker brown under the top layer. I just mix it and dampen it again.






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