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broken shell hell


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#1 Guest_yodstarr_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 03:06 PM

Hi guys
Im new to this game, having only picked up my 2yr old herman two weeks ago so bear with me!
The problem i have is this:
when i picked bought him, he had what looks like a broken shell, although not a crack, it looks more like the top layer has flaked off to reveal a more shiney hard surface underneath, the store told me that this is due to growth, as the shell expands it will shed. Now it is affecting the other surrounding pieces of shell (forgot techy term sorry!) only on the carapace not the plate.

I have brough a book and scoured the net but cannot find reference to this. I am worried something is wrong!! am i right?

please help, urgently!!! i love this little fella (speedbump!) i dont want to lose him!

thnx

jody

#2 Guest_amy_smith33_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 03:18 PM

I am sorry to say what you have been told about the shell is rubbish.
Their shells donot shed. Without a picture its hard to say what it is.
But would be very wary that its not shell rot. A visit to a tortoise vet would be helpful.
Can you return the tortoise to the shop/seller?
If it were mine I would bathe the shell with diluted betadine (from chemist) to prevent any bacteria getting under the shell.

#3 Guest_yodstarr_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 03:29 PM

hi thnx for the quick response. I thought as much!!! i guess i could return him, problem is ive grown to love him (or her not sure!) and dont really see it as an option.

Would this also be a reason for him sleeping excessively? hes up for an hour or 2 in the morning, he eats, then burrows under the lamp and sleeps.

there seems to be so much advise out there but very little of it seems consistent.

daytime temp ive been told to keep is 84 and 74 at night. is this right?

#4 Guest_yodstarr_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 03:36 PM

just a though, should i report the store for what theyve done? if yes who to?

jody

#5 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 04:12 PM

Honey before you report the shop take the tortoise to a vet that knows about tortoises and let them assess the shell etc and tell you what they think is wrong with it. Without a picture as Amy says it's real difficult to advise you but a good vet will be able to and then you can take it from there, any action that needs taking against the shop will depend on the what the vet says. If you do take any action it would be best to have a report on the tortoise done by a vet so at least you have some back up to your actions. Sorry to hear about the tort, if we can help in any way please ask, even if you just want help finding a vet in your area, we will help. :)

#6 Guest_george_hermann_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 04:24 PM

I would certainly question the captive breeding of a tortoise that has a damaged shell, but unfortunately, it's highly unlikely pet stores carefully select the finest captive bred tortoises anyway x(
I understand that you have grown fond of your little one, and it's certainly no reason to return the tortoise to a life of misery (ie. the pet store) just because it has shell rot. Tortoises aren't disposable toys that can be returned because they get broken x(
Your tortoise deserves a fighting chance in life after the journey he's been on to get to your home, so you're quite right in wanting to keep him. Good luck.

#7 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 04:33 PM

Yep I agree with George Hermann, you can't just send it back, it's yours now honey, you do the best you can for it, I admire you greatly for wanting to keep it. You always have help here on this forum, you only have to ask.:)

#8 Guest_yodstarr_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 04:50 PM

ok, im a little relieved to know i can now get good advise! thnx for all yr help. i will take him to a vet. Any recommendations for good one in the midlands (preferably in or around Sutton Coldfield but will travel regardless!) would b appreciated.

Will Betadine cure this problem, how long should i use it for and when will i know its gone?

Im not sure on the conditions at the pet store as he was bought as a birthday pressie to shut me up about wanting a tort! but i will be finding out!

Rest assured, he will not be going back. Id spend the rest o my life wondering what happened to him (or her!)

It does seem to me however, as a layman in tortoise keeping, that as a result of the years tortoises been out of our homes has resulted in a huge lack of knowledgeable outlets, we seem to be rapidly seeing them back in the stores, being sold by people who really dont know much about them, and although much more exensive, they come with very little information on how to keep them.

The internet is a savior! oh, and a store in Erdington, Slade Road, who it does seem have their ##### together so to speak! thnx to them also.

jody

#9 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 04:57 PM

Honey, first find out what the tortoise has before trying to treat it, make an appointment as soon as possible with a vet and let them have a look, you may be worrying unnecessarily, it's so easy to do when you have tortoises and your a new owner. Here are a list of good vets from this site and also from another very good site, both are worth looking into.

http://www.hermann-t...ist_of_vets.htm

http://www.livefood.co.uk/vets.htm

#10 Guest_Calamity Jane_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 05:09 PM

Most tortoise bought from pet shops are imported by the hundreds in very poor conditions,And also in mixed species, They are shuved in a box and get very dehydrated and by the time they reach the shop they are very stressed out and poorly,They are also very cheap to buy, and the pet shop makes loads of money without a care about the tortoises welfare. Then the customer is advised badley on how to look after it, and end up with Vivs which are no good and pellet foods. People should NOT buy from pet shops and Only Buy from UK breeders and have a look at the certs before you buy.
I know its really hard when you see these poor torts in pet shops but its the only way to stop it happening.
The more they sell the more they import.
Very Sad But Very True. :)



Yours
Joanne
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www.tortoises.piczo.com
www.thetortoisehouse.piczo.com

#11 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 05:52 PM

Hello Jody
I'm glad your keeping the tort, Betadine is very good, but the vet should give him a check over, try and take some poo if he does some, it can be kept hygenically in the fridge for a couple of days, he may need worming too, Betadine needs to be diluted 10 parts water to 1 part Betadine. Can you tell us what set up you have ?? and how your warming him during the day, indors at night he needs no heat
http://www.tortoises.net
http://www.thetortoisehouse.com
http://www.tortoisetrust.com
Some light reading for you :-)
Arnie

#12 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 07:13 PM

Hello i am from walsall and i take my tortoises to a vet is telford
Here is their address
http://www.any-uk-ve...taylor-high-st/

#13 Guest_Inca_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 09:55 PM

Hiya,

I use a vets in Long Eaton near Nottingham (I think it is maybe nearish to you) - it is an animal hospital and they have seen and treated my tortoise well on several occasions.

They are -

Ashfield Animal Hospital http://www.ashvet.co.uk/

Hope your tort gets well soon,

Inca

#14 Guest_yodstarr_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 10:10 PM

Hello Jody
I'm glad your keeping the tort, Betadine is very good, but the vet should give him a check over, try and take some poo if he does some, it can be kept hygenically in the fridge for a couple of days, he may need worming too, Betadine needs to be diluted 10 parts water to 1 part Betadine. Can you tell us what set up you have ?? and how your warming him during the day, indors at night he needs no heat
http://www.tortoises.net
http://www.thetortoisehouse.com
http://www.tortoisetrust.com
Some light reading for you :-)
Arnie


Yer no probs, any advise at this stage would b much appreciated. Ive attached 3 pics for u to look at, one of the viv setup and a couple of speedy. Its hard to see so i have circled one pic where the shell is rotting.
By day i have an 8.0 UVB bulb on for 12/14 hrs a day, along with a heat bulb set at 28c during day and 22c at night. Again im only going off what ive been told by the pet store.

I feed him on mixed salad leaves, a few weeds that i find on the dog walk! doc leaves, dandilion etc, occasional tomato, loves broccoli!!!! oh n cabbage all topped off with a nice sprinkling of nutrobol and this white stuff i think is calcuim (i pre mix this according to the instructions)

#15 Guest_Calamity Jane_*

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 11:44 PM

Hi,
Dont want to sound mean but get rid of the vivarium,, They are no good and cause a lot of problems.
Vivariums cause breathing problem due to the high humidity in them,

The Tortoise Trust is the most respected tortoise organisation in the world please take a look www.tortoisetrust.org
Also Cabbage is not good as it inhibits the uptake of calcium which is essential for the tort to develop properly. Brocolli, Tomatoes & doc leaves are no good either,

Try growing some T Ladys mix which you can get from here
http://www.tlady.cla...t/herbiseed.htm
Its really good and last for ages and only takes a few weeks to grow.
Also Romaine lettuce, little gem lettuce, watercress,from the supermarket, Until more weeds come through.

Hope this helps a little.

Yours
Joanne
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www.tortoises.piczo.com
www.thetortoisehouse.piczo.com

#16 Guest_ston73_*

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 12:00 AM

Hello there, I have read all the above and as a new owner myself, dont feel I can give the best advise, however having had a poorly tortoise and two visits to the vets (same vets that apparently know and specialise in torts) I have great concerns as to what you are informed by the vets..... I have had far more productive and useful info on this forum than at the vets ... THANKYOU ALL...
I am now going to definately change vets, as I have been told such contrasting things by the same practice and have been spoken to like a piece of ****, of which I'm not putting up with.
The vet agrees I am doing things right, of which I indicated the info gained was from this forum, but i have never met anyone so condescending....He presumed, and asked that I had my tort in a 'vivarium',,, when I said "oh no, they are not for torts, I have her in a table top".. he looked at me and said; " so you have her in a viv then...." carried onto say a set up with uv lights and a spotlight lamp is classed as a viv, for any exotic species.
Maybe i am extremely nieve, but my answer was "well if you say so". he came across as a power freak and that he knew best.... to me a viv is an enclosed housing with glass doors.... a table top does not constitute as a viv ?? Am I wrong?? (will stand corrected if I am!)
I also asked him his advise further to what I had been told 10 days ago at the same practise, and his answer was.. " I hope you are not playing one off against the other..." when I left the vets 10 days ago (as people on this forum will support) - I was beside myself, the advise I had been given was despairing... today however, I have nothing to worry about as far as what I was told before. However I have been told that RNS is very difficult to overcome and the chances are she will die... "take this and put it on her food". she will always have RNS and may just keel over and die.... THANKS FOR THAT REASURANCE VET. (He also said "I hope you arent batting off against each other" - the place I bought her from and last vets visit!!)
please please let me know of a good vet in Hampshire if you know one!!
But hey she isnt now underweight and is now back up to 2 years old again.......mmmmmm talk about contradicting info.... wouldnt be a problem if it didnt worry you. these little ones hold a huge place in your heart, and being a nurse and knowing how professionals learn to detatch...it still doesnt comfort me to know that they (vets) just treat them as just another animal... dont do the job if you arent passionate....sorry for the long email, had to get this off my chest!!
Anyway, what I am saying is, be careful where and who you get your info from and certainly listen to the 'experts' on this forum. I have had more luck and success from the information given here on this site than anywhere else....
take care... and with the torts.... claire.x

#17 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 09:21 AM

I totally agree with you about vets some havnt a clue and there are many people on here that will give you better advice than a vet. However if you must take your tortoise to a vet I would ring the one in telford as does see alot of exotic animals, and alot of tortoises, I have had my adult red foots wormed there, my tiny egyptian tortoise had to have a tube fitted there. He sees many tortoises not so many exotic tortoises like red foots but many hermann and spur thighed also if you wanted to check for wormed in your tortoises poo you could send a sample off in the post and they will ring you up the next day and give you the results for 7.50.

#18 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 09:22 AM

Oh and i totally agree with the vivarium, here are a few of my set up used with an Ikea tub

#19 Guest_ston73_*

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 10:52 AM

Yes, Tilley is in an Ikea tub too. our set ups are very simular. I would post a picture, however I am thick and dont know how to do it, had trouble last time I tried!!

#20 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 11:55 AM

Hello Jody
This is what I was afraid of, I thought if the shop keeper knows nothing about tortoises, he would sell you the wrong equipment,
First off the UV is ok, not sure what you mean by heat bulb, what I call a heat bulb just gives out heat not light, it needs to be romoved and can be changed to an ordinary spot bulb you buy from Asda, it has to resemble the sun, watch which one you buy you may need the screw in one not the bayonet fixture, I think a 60 watt bulb should do. Both lights need to be off at night, so long as the temps don't go below say 10 degree's the tort will be ok and he's in home so that's doubtful. You do need to open up the viv, I will put a photo on of what another forum members father did to change there's
You wont be the first and you won't be the last to be sold the wrong stuff, shop keepers are out to make a profit, you would have been better with a cavie cage.
As for diet that too need to change, a tortoise should have very little or none of fruit and that includes tomatoes, any member of the brassica family needs to be illiminated from the diet too.
I know how hard it is to obtain weeds at the moment, but beware of dog walks the weeds can be contaminated with doggie doo, as well as the salad stuff you have already been reccomended you can also buy Floretti CRISPY salad bags, I emphasize the crispy part as Floretti sell a few different kinds but this one has all foods which are exceptable to tortoises.
There is nothing like weeds and flowers to give a tortoise a proper diet so get thinking about that, Spring will soon be upon us and people will be only too pleased to give you their weeds, Dandelions you can give the tortoise all the leaf except for about an inch above the root, reset it and it will grow, but they do need a varied diet not just one thing so the T/Ladies mix is great, Lin did a lot of research for us and then found the company that would produce it, please eveyone that buys the mix make sure when ordering you buy the right one as they are now producing a mix for Leopards which is mainly grasses and not suitable for med torts..
Jody can you take a photo of the tortoise underneath from the rear end, your tort looks big enough to be sexed, no promises though:-)
Will try and upload this photo now
Arnie




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