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Hibernating


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#21 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 07:06 PM

Or maybe we just have unusual mutant type torts lol, who knows huh. :)

#22 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 07:12 PM

Ok lets leave this subject now we all do it differently and all tortoises are different. :-) :-)

#23 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 07:51 PM

No worries honey, I would be the last person to stop someone doing what they want :)

#24 Guest_george_hermann_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 12:02 AM

You lot are too nice }> Come October, i'm gonna shove George and Ringo in the fridge next to the pickles and corned beef and then they'll get the urge to hibernate. You've got to use tough love on these tortoises, Omare. It may seem cruel, but it really is for the best :)

#25 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 04:56 PM

You lot are too nice }> Come October, i'm gonna shove George and Ringo in the fridge next to the pickles and corned beef and then they'll get the urge to hibernate. You've got to use tough love on these tortoises, Omare. It may seem cruel, but it really is for the best :)



Personal choice and all honey, when you've kept torts for over 40 years and didn't hibernate them with no problems like us honey then you will be in a position to question what we do :) Until then you are most welcome to do what you feel is right for your torts, I don't question anyone on this forum and tell them they shouldn't be hibernating but for some reason people feel the need to question us. We are not the only ones on this forum not to hibernate and I have read threads on other forums where people have admitted to not hibernating but no one bats an eye lid, they just accept it. Forums are for freedom of speech and life is for freedom of choice and thats how it should be, sorry if you don't agree with our methods of tortoise keeping but we aint gonna change and certainly not gonna lie about how we keep our torts, they are not suffering in any way and have regular check ups by a vet who incidentally also doesn't hibernate his torts. This is by no means an angry post on my part and hope no one takes it as such, thats the trouble with forums, you only have to post your views and it starts an argument, this is just my opinion. Personal choice in the end.:)

#26 Guest_amy_smith33_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 01:53 PM

My tortoises slow down too, usually about the end of September beginning of October. My tortoises live outside from May until they have slowed down. Maybe thats the differences.

#27 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 01:56 PM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-02-06 AT 01:57 PM (GMT)]It is my belief that any tortoise will slow down if you put it in the correct enviroment, if you keep it in a warm house of cause ti will no slow down but if you kept it in a house and slowly lowered the temperatures they will slow down it is built into them.

#28 Guest_mattgriffin1_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 03:54 PM

Agreed.
I am a firm believer in what comes naturally and prefer to keep the "artifical-ness" to a minimum (I know that's not a word!). Of course keeping torts in captivity necessitates some modifications to their natural lifestyle but I don't believe we should, or have the right to totally invert their natural rhythm and keep them awake living in a centrally heated house all winter. Just my opinion, I have no intention of getting into an argument with anybody, been there and done that ;-)

Matt.

#29 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 04:46 PM

This subject is very controversial and one i would avoid but well here we go.
Mediterranean tortoises have evolved over many thousands of years and adapted to various climates that don't sustain them through out the year so evolution has desgned them the unique ability to slow down there metabolic rate when times get hard(changes in climate whether it be to hot or to cold etc)with the ability to hibernate and or estivate now with this unique ability there comes a price animals that are denide the urge to shut down can suffer dietry disfunction and poor reproductive cycles so basically tortoises that are a hiberanteing species require a shut down period for part of the year this enables them to shutdown there hormones and give them a new surge after hibernaton has finished and it certainly stops overgrowth of young animals also it can be very difficult to replicate the natural amount of uvb and correct diet to sustain a hibernating speices correctly through the winter months this then will cause dietry defects internally that might not become apparent for many years.
Of cause animals of great age that have suffered bad husbandry may need to be over wintered for some years or even give up on hibernation and allow them to live there last years not hibernateing this might sound contradicting after just saying tortoises require hibernation but what i'm saying is these elderly animals and by elderly i mean in there late 60's upwards cannot IF they have had really bad husbandry in there past put the fat reserves on to sustain a winter hibernation without becoming sickly again but these are rare cases, but young and middle aged animals should be given a chance at hibernation even if they have suffered badly in life previously of cause they neeed to reach optimum body weight first and once a steady health check by a qualified chelonian veterinary has been taken then hibernation can start again.
Now many people will argue i have never hibernated my tortoises and he's reaLly healthy but how do you no just because it eats and moves about doesn't mean internally the animal is fine only a blood test can determine this all my meds are blood sampled every year to check for defects now all the animals that undergo hibernation are 100% fit by there blood results, but we have taken in unwanted tortoises from time to time some of which haven't had the correct or no hibernation at all they never have good blood results even though they appear healthy , mainly they have low calcium D3 levels nd execcise urea levels due to in correct husbandry through over wintering,
Now another point that i need to state is why can we give out information like;
Don't keep tortoies in vivs its unhealthy.
Don't feed fruits its unhealthy.
Don't feed animal protien its unhealthy.
You must have a uvb bulb source etc it's the correct thing to do.
the list go's on, but these animals denide the previous list would still live normally for many years of cause defects would be visably seen if kept without the unnesseccary equipment but then meditterreanan tortoises require hibernation but no one jumps at any one that doesn't practice this but many people think it cruel not to do it so why do people advertise healthy animals that don't hibernate is this because visual abnormalities can't be seen, well thats my big rant over with so whats the verdict.
Darren

#30 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 04:53 PM

Well put Darren, i am totally 100% behind you on that one.

#31 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 05:22 PM

Ok honey your message has come over load and clear, I won't post how we keep ours torts anymore, freedom of speech is obviously dead on this forum.

#32 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 06:49 PM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-02-06 AT 06:50 PM (GMT)]Freedom of speech certainly isn't dead on this forum everyone is entitled to there own opinion whether we agree or disagree as you often put it is up to the individual owner ,every one is here to help and advise the best they can and put across there own views on there own personnel experiences in chelonia care to benefit each other .
I fore one strongly believe n hibernation even though some of my tortoises don't undertake this proceedure for some reason or an other, but then i need to look at there husbandry and see where i'm going wrong as something is not right, fore instance every autumn time i cool my horsfields down prior to hibernation the female starts nesting , saying this though she does astivate for several weeks through the summer who no's,anyway back to what i'm saying i think that your would be foolish not but out your experiences on the threads as you appear and are very popular and i'm sure you would be greatly missed and you have far more tortoise expertise than me with 40yrs behind you i'm no way near that yet with only 19 yrs behind me so think again please before making any harsh decisions your imput would be greatly missed

Darren

#33 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 07:08 PM

Honey I don't come onto this forum to provoke or try to change peoples attitudes on tortoise husbandry or keeping, it really is not in my nature. Tortoises have been in our family for years, but we no way call ourselves experts, I really hate that word. Everyone no matter how long they have had torts are always learning and viewing things differently.
Most if not all of our torts have had such bad lives that to put them through hibernation would be a crime in itself. I don't have a view on hibernation, people will do what they feel is right for their torts, all I know is how we keep ours and that they have the best care that they have ever had with no problems, our torts were riddled with probelms when they first came to us. I have never advocated not hibernating or advised anyone to do as we do but I can't be a hypocrite and advise hibernating when we don't do it, I would be shot down in an instant. I just speak the truth on our part and it's up to others to decide how they keep their torts, I aint gonna go into their house and demand they keep them a certain way, thats their choice. This situation is not dissimilar to when Sarah was attacked by Nikki for keeping her torts in what Nikki said was a small room, as Sarah said, have you been to my house Nikki and seen my room, obviously not so she had no right to say it.If my opinions are bugging people then it's best they are kept to myself and then people can keep their torts one way and not have to decide. I'm not on here to make enemies of people believe me, everyone does things differently and it's great to hear what they are.

#34 Guest_Terrific Tortoise_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 11:39 PM

Ok, this hibernation thread looks good! and by good I mean good for the novice Tort keeper, because after all they are the ones with all the concerns about whether or not to hibernate. In terms of a novice tort keeper (I could qualify, with less than 10 years experience?!) and some of you will remember just recently I posted a "To hibernate or not to hibernate" for my now 18 month old Iberas (which are incedently in their 4th week of full hibernation). The reasons I placed them in full hibernation are- 1. Iberas tend to grow at a quite remarkable rate, even though I had placed them on a diet! 2. Although I cooled them down the year before (when they were approx. 6 months old) it did not really effect their rapid growth. 3. I am trying to give them the best possible start in life, and I believe the most natural way for a Tort is hibernation. After all, I hibernate all of my adults every year, from November to March (Yes that is right, 4 months!). Now take into account the fact that I starve (empty their gut) my torts for up to a month before putting them down, so for 5 months of the year they dont eat!! But for the time that they are awake boy do I feed them! Then you have to consider that my torts are in a breeding program, and by hibernating them, I believe that helps in both sexes reproductive systems. Obviously there are certain times that you would not hibernate, such as old or unhealthy torts etc. It is very difficult to rear a baby tort without slight over feeding/rapid growth, because we create a false enviroment for them (plenty of heat and food!) so therefore hibernation maybe the key?!, try and give them a "cloudy day" (very little or no food/heat) from time to time, in the wild, they would not have an abundance of food, day in day out!!!...This is just my point of view and my own experiences with my torts, not everyone will agree with these, which is fine, thats what makes the world an interesting place, good healthy discussions, keep em comin...T.T.

#35 Guest_shootinglou79_*

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 12:47 AM

WOW, some strong comments here, but really, thankyou to all on their points and experience, but i will ask more closely to the time i need or not to hibernate next year, which by then they will then be 3 and 5 yrs of age, and i will also have a 7 yr old Spur thigh to hibernate too, as im getting a 6yr old female tomorrow :) cant wait. but thankyou too all.

#36 Guest_Andrea888_*

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 10:31 AM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-02-06 AT 10:31 AM (GMT)]Just for the record, I don't hibernate my tortoises either, never have and never will and they are all healthy and well, regular check ups, my brother is a vet so they get all the check ups they need. This is just my opinion.

#37 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 11:34 AM

Well..

Hibernation the topic that will start a fight every time is here again...

Some really well put points and I hope people read and decide for or against.

Omare, you are always the first to state you do not hibernate and you say why, so you must expect and accept others will put a case forward for hibernation.

Like hibernation you have the choice to post or not to, but with so many years experiance not posting would deprive those who need it most! People needing help.

Regards

Mike




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