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Poorly daisy may


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#21 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:52 PM

Nina
You are supposed to be on holiday, go enjoy yourself.

Annette, her last words to me before she went on her hols was, Please look after Daisy May and Annette
Arnie

#22 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:29 PM

Bless her, thats so sweet.
Everyone is so caring on here, its amazing.
Im sure she will have a fab time once shes there and im hoping when shes back i can email her some pics of a happy daisy may

Annette :)

#23 Guest_zenbird_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:55 AM

Hi Annette,

Really sorry to hear that Daisy May is not at her best.

You are obviously doing all you can for her, and I'm so happy that she has finally eaten something.

My vet told me that as long as they get a varied diet of mostly high in calcium weeds, a little bit of other foods, such as fruit and carrots etc. will not do them any harm.

If she wants a small amount of shredded wheat, let her have it, So long as you offer dandylion leaves etc. as well.

As many people have already said, the most important part is to keep her hydrated.

Hope all goes well for you both.

#24 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:47 PM

Hi Arnie

I popped into an new retile shop today thats opened recently near where i live, to see if they could offer me any help. They have tortoises in their shop, different breeds and ages and all seemed happy and eating away (made me wish daisy may would be like that).
I asked if he knew of any specialists in the area and he asked me what was wrong etc.

He told me that she is ill as there is too much moisture in the air in my house and this is causing her respiritory probs. He said i need to get her in a viv and put the heat up and she will be then fine. He said tort tables arent very good, as a house is full of moisture (from washing up etc) so this causes illness. He said tort tables are ok in summer if your tort is outside during day sometimes etc.

He had his torts in beech vivs with hemp and they did look happy. I told him id been given different advice and that vivs can cause illness but he obviously wasnt going to change his mind. He said the bulbs i have may not be strong enough and that my temp could be a little higher. I told him again id been given different advice. He did agree that heat pads etc are wrong and when we discussed foods etc he said what i already knew.
But his advice was to get her into a viv asap until at least summer as this will be whats causing her illness.
So now im totally confused??!!
Is there anyway of getting less moisture in the air at home? My home is quite large and part is open plan so can get cold.
Any suggestions?

She seems a bit more active today and has been exploring her box, she still wont eat anything but i tried putting a cornflake on a dandelion leaf but she cleverly ate the cornflake and not the leaf. Shge seems to love cereal this tort??!! I need to get her eating veg/weeds etc but shes not interested.
Hope someone can sort this out for me as im going crazy with all the different advice im given

Annette :)

#25 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:12 PM

Annette Vivs can cause respiratiry problems in the long term, I imagine Daisy is in the lounge where most of us keep them. So a load of rubbish as far as I'm concerned, but they do hold the heat at a constant level, which is good for a short term treatment, which is what Daisy is having, but you can't buy a viv for what sould be just 2 weeks and then you may never use it again. so you have improvised,

Don't change anything while she is on Baytril, if she burys in it, be it soil mix or Aubiose, she won't keep warm under the lamps. and I must stress that Baytril is more affective when the animal is warm.

I'm a bit concerned that the cerial could have been dry and she found it hard to digest, don't forget most cerials expands when wet too, so a small piece to her will get bigger in her tummy
As for the pellets, can you mix a bit and smear it on some good food, like a dandylion leaf
Once she is recovered you must get her on a proper diet as these are not good for her, long term.
She won't be poorly again, but then if she ever is off colour you won't have to resort to this junk food to get her to eat.
When she is better you must steal yourself and no matter how many days she refuses to eat a good diet, you will have to ignore her, she could go a month without food to try and get what she wants, but she will eat it in the end, she won't starve herself to death, I promise :-)
Arnie

#26 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:15 PM

Hi Annette

NO please do not get a viv. As you quite rightly thought, they are really bad for the torts respitory system. Pet shops will advise to get these as they make big bucks out of them. What Arnie said about the Auboise is right, they love it and mine bury right down so I can't find them sometimes.

As long as one end of the tort table is 32 ish on the ground under the light and about 22 at the other end then you're doing great. Where is the tort table? If it is inside the house then the heating from the house should keep it nice and warm anyway. If in a agrage or shed add soem background heat with a radiator.

Also as Arnie said keepin gher warm is important as it helps torts fight illnesses quicker (just done my lesson 2 of the tortoise trust course and this was in it :) )

Have you had the torts faeces and urates tested? Some things can only be tested in one or the other so best to have both done. Even if your vet isnt a tort specialist they can send them to a main lab to check them out. We recently looked after a poorly tort and the vet tested the faeces and the urates and found different things.

Keep us updated. Where did you say you were again - middlesborough was it?

Jade

#27 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:27 PM

Hi Arnie & Jade (my angels)

I soaked the cornflake in water when i gave it to Daisy may so it was very soggy and wet. She seems to like mushy food i think. What pellets should i try? I tried 2 local pet shops and neither stock anything like that so will have to order of internet, any suggestions?

The vet wormed her as she said it would cost 45 to send her poo away and 14 to worm her so she just did that. The vet isnt the most knowledgable vet on torts but has dealt with older ones. She is getting 3 more injections then thats the course complete.
I wont get a viv, i wasnt really convinced by the man in the shop after reading all the messages on here about them.

My tort house is in the dining room which is next to the lounge, theres a small archway separating the 2 rooms. It has a radiator in it but there is a conservatory at the other end of the dining room and although has doubled glazed doors to it can get drafty close by. But daisy may is a good 12ft away from that end and i close the curtains on a night to keep any drafts out.
What temp should the room be during the night then? Should i maybe leave a heater on while shes poorly?

Annette :)

#28 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:35 PM

Hi Jade

Forgot to answer your question, yes im in middlesbrough

Annette :)

#29 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:59 PM

Hi Annette

I suddenly thought I keep giving you celcius and i thin kyour workin gin farenheit. The surface under the light should be about 86 degrees farenheit.

Spoke to my friend who has been helping look after another sick tort we saw on this forum a couple of weeks back. We also went through Andy Highfields encyclopedia

Whaty does the cities lisence say for place of origin of the tort? I unknowingly got my torts from a pet shop years ago (touch wood they have been fine since and had them for several yrs now), however many torts from pet shops are imports, this is not to say yours is but it is a possibility. Even if the lisence says UK bred this is still a possibility because unfortuanely they can obtain the cities from defra. If it was to be an import, then they are filled with all sorts.

I know it will be expensive (ask other vets prices as well) but I think it is important to get a faeces and urates sample. You want the faeces sample tested for: helmints over (probably spelt wrong but this is how you pronounce it i think) and protazoa.
You want the urates tested for: hexamita

If you do choose to have it done which i think would be a good idea then let us know if it comes back with any of these things.

If the tort is in the house the temps hsould be fine so dont worry :)

If you havent already put a piece of slate for the tort to sit on under the lamp as this warms up quickly. If the ground under the lamp isnt getting to 86 then you may need to move the light nearer or get a higher watt.

Don't panic, you're doin greally well and Daisy May is lucky to have such a loving mummy :D

Jade

#30 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 04:09 PM

Hi Jade

Yeah ive just done my routine temp check at 4pm and the hot spot is 32deg.c and the her house is 23deg.c. The air temp is 27deg.c but heating has been on.

I must say the past hour shes like shes been on speed, she been trotting round her box and exploring and climbing over things which is a total first. The temp has been slightly warmer for her today as ive had a small heater in with her and this has picked her up a bit.
She had 2 more soggy cornflakes but i put some calcium on it which she ate and she bit into the cuttlefish for the first time. So ive had a good hour with her. She keeps trying to climb up the walls to escape, cheeky thing and is now digging around under the wood shavings.

Her cert says the country of origin is slovenia.
I will take a poo and wee sample next time she has 1 when i go to the vets.

Thanks again for your support, you are a total life saver for me and daisy may. She sends a hug
Annette :):D

#31 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 04:28 PM

Hi all

Im trying to find some tortoise pellets on the net to use with daisy may in hoping if i smear it on some leaves she will eat it. What brand is good as i dont know what im looking for?

thanks
Annette :)

#32 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 05:12 PM

Hi Annette

Thats fantastic news that she is pickin gup. Yep definatley get those to the vets if she is from slovenia. Really important as they bring so many parasites that panacur (dont think that is spelt right either) might not kill. I really would avoid the pellets as they are too high in protein. It is not good for the tort but if your trying to get her to eat dandelions or other weeds and she really really wont is to rub a little strawberry (tiny tiny bit) onto the weeds as this may encourage her. Have been told its a dead cert for getting torts to have cuttle fish and their vitramins.

Also def. dont let the vet give anymore vitamin injections. These apparently should only be given if a blood test shows they are deficient in them. The other thing is if she is from slovenia she may be older than you have been told as they grow at a much slower speed then they do in captivity (hence why so many torts we have here are lumpy and yours is beautifully smooth).

She must be feeling a little better now she is walking around, probably nice and warm. The other thing I meant to ask is do you have a UV light? I totally forgot to look to see if you had one on ur pic.

Jade

#33 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 05:17 PM

Hi

Arnie just mentioned about smearing a tiny bit of the pellets onto some weeds for her to try.
I have the arcadia D3 UVB light. Its 23w and says 7% on the box. Is that what you meant?

I also have a hobby sunlight bulb 50w as her basking light. Then during the night (as arnie recommended to me) im using a euro rep red night spotlamp.

Im going to get some spare bulbs should i get the same as what im using or different?

Annette :)

#34 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 06:58 PM

Yeah do as Arnie said. Just don't feed loads of torts pellets and only do it until she is well. :) u prob know this already :D

The UV bulb is fine.

For the heat bulb during the day you can actually buy just an ordinary spot light from the supermarket (often you can get 2 for 99p) I only found this out recently that they are the same as you get from reptile shops pretty much but with diff packaging. I think I have one that is 70watt and the other is 100w (diff. enclosures).

Spoke to my friend and she agreed about the testing because she said that they also get transported into the country with a range of different species (i didnt realsie this before) and so even more things are passed on because of the mix.

:D

Jade

#35 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 07:38 AM

Hi

She did something in her bath this morning not sure if its wee or poo but was white and slightly mushy. Hard to get out of the water as it just kept breaking up. She has poo'd in the past but these were brown and large. Ive also seen her wee as that just came out of her bum as a gush of watery cloud in the water.

She ate sum soft suede and brocolli stem this morning. Still wouldnt take any greens but she had a goof few bites of these and i put some calcium on it for her too so i felt better to see her eat something.
Not sure if its cos her area is warmer or the jabs or what but she def is a little better.

Take her for her 3rd jab this morning, i hate taking her cos she hates it so much.
Gona ask the vet for some type of tube to put her samples in for when i go back for 4th jab tomorrow so she can test for the things you mentioned.

Thanks so much for your help so far, please keep chatting tho as you guys are really helping me through this

Annette :)

#36 Guest_zenbird_*

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 11:58 AM

Hi Annette,

I bought some T-Rex Totoise Dry Formula when I first got Owen as this was recommended to me.

After reading on this forum I decided not to use it.

If you really want to try to smear a little of the dried food onto weeds, I can send you some of mine.

It just seems a waste for it to be sitting here when you may need a little ~ also no point in buying a tub when it's obviously not the best thing for them.

I have finally been able to upload some pics of Owen!!!

I decided to put a tub of cress in for a change ~ he imeidiately used it as an escape route!!!

Needless to say Owen will not be having Cress again.

Back to the T-Rex stuff, don't worry I won't be offended if you don't want it.

#37 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 12:10 PM

Hi Annette

So glad little Daisy is feeling better. :)

Just a quick question, was the guy you bought the tortoise from and who you said was away at the moment called Chris?

Jade

#38 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 02:54 PM

Hi Jade

Yeah hes called chris and ive just spoke to him. I had rang him and left emails about daisy and he got back to me today. I said id been on this forum for advice from people and asked if id chatted to someone called jade!!
I said yeah and he said you'd spoken to him. He said that you may have got the wrong end of the stick and to say that he keeps his torts in open top vivs that are more like a table top. Apparently there are pics on his website. He doesnt agree with vivs but he does stock them as some people still buy them. He said that he doesnt keep his torts in vivs and hopes that if it was you he spoke to, could i make sure you understand. Does that make sense???
He told me all his torts are wormed etc before sold aswell.
He was very concerned about daisy and sorry he was out of the country while this was all going on.

I asked what he was feeding daisy on and he said dandelions etc as where he is, is near woods so she was fed alot of fresh weeds.

Annette :)

#39 Guest_annette_harris_*

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 02:58 PM

Hi

Haha, thats so cute, hes like daisy, she tries to escape but has no objects that are close enough to the edge. I love the name owen, its sweet.
Wish i got your message yesterday as i ordered a small tub last night of the t-rex pelletts but thank you so much for the kind offer, i would have used it too.
Im hoping i wont need to use too much as she is eating veg, she just doesnt like anything green!! I put a soggy cornflake on a piece of dandelion and she did take a bite out of it but then realised what i was doing so cleverly bit the cornflake off the leaf. Im hoping tomorrow i can stop the cornflake trick as i know its not good for her, but was just so happy she eat something.

Annette :)

#40 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 03:07 PM

HI Annette

Yeah thought it was him. I'm sure it said on his site the torts were fed on dandelions and stuff so just emailed him about the vivs. He sent me an email back saying about the open top vivs. I replied to his email and I think all is ok :) think i had a bit of a rant head on me that day :D which i did apologise for :D

Jade




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