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Two ill tortoises


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#1 Guest_rmetin_*

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:32 PM

Hello, today I searched all forums that have experienced users.. In shelled warrior I wrote the problems and now I copy them to you as well.. If you help me, I will be very thankful...
I am writing to you from Turkey.. It is very difficult to find somebody who knows something about tortoises... I took my tortoise to vet as well, but unfortunately, there is no result yet.. I found an email address that belongs to "tortoisetrust". I sent them a detailed mail but there is no answer for two days. Maybe they did not see, or they are busy, but I am afraid of being late for my tortoises' illness:( I will copy my detailed mail here, and add the pictures as well.. If there is somebody who has the same experience or knows what happened to my tortoises, please help me... I love them, and I am ready to do everything for keeping alive them... I knew that they were very ill when I bought them.. However I thought that everbody can buy the best and the most healthy ones, I only prefered to take the ill ones and make them healthy and happy... Please help me...
The mail and photos are below:
I bought two tortoises from a pet shop although I knew that they were very sick.. Their conditions were very bad, there was no lamp for warming, no food for eating, no water for drinking... They were very cold like an ice piece.. I took them immediately to a vet. I am writing to you other details below:

*The name of the species: maybe Testudo hermanni I do not know exactly

*Nearly three weeks ago I bought them from a pet shop

*I am in Turkey in Ankara ( weather is very cold and snowy in winters, and very hot and dry in summers. )

*The age and size of the animal: One of them is 6.5 cm, one of them is 5.5 cm but I have no information about their ages.

*There is no physical contact but I have 5 parrots too in the same room.

*Full details of the diet : small one rejects eating sera' s raffy vital, it only eats lettuce, carrot and soybean burgeon.The bigger one eats sera's raffy vital, lettuce, soybean burgeon, apple. I gave a lot of green plants too but they only choose these ones.

*Names of any vitamin and mineral supplements: I drip Sanasol( includes a vitamine) only one or two drop on their food. I also give Calcidine( d vitamine and minerals ) in their water by resolving nearly 10 small pieces of it.
Type of accommodation: Firstly, I prepared a wood terrarium( 53*45*45 cm cubes) with 15 watt 45 cm uvb lamp( sera ) and a warming lamp (40 watt). I put organic soil that is with a height of 10 cm. But for two days, their eyes were closed. I was afraid of infection form soil so I took them from there and put to another plastic box with a height- 20 cm and an area -40* 50 cm square today. I put wood shavings( that is special for hamsters) on the base of box.

*The temperatures: Above 25 degree.
*Are the eyes open? Is it alert? - When I bought the bigger one was very ill and the small has only shell problems. Small one's eyes were open, the bigger one's eyes were hoarse. But now the bigger one is better, its eyes are not so closed. The small one's eyes were closed and they look like that they have a small infection.

*Is the animal walking normally? - The bigger one could not walk normally when I bought it, it put its head to the base and walked hardly but now it is much better than the first behaviour. The small one walks normally.

*Is the animal feeding? - Bigger one eats very throaty sera 's raffy vital and other food. But for two days, smaller one eats much less..

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***The biggest problem was with bigger tortoise.. When I bought it, it gave no reaction to me, it could not walk easily and put its head to base while walking, and under its shell, it had dark and similarly green stains. And when I gave it water firstly, I understood that it did not drink water for a long time because it did not stop drinking for nearly 7-10 minutes. Ýt started to eat, there was no problem with its appetite. Because of its shell, I took it to vet immediately. He injected an antibiotic medicine- PAN TERRAMYCIN( very small amount 0.025 ml) . And injected serum ( small amount again) and a vitamine. At home, I injected its serum every 6 hours( very small amount), antibiotic every two days(0.025 ml), and gave vitamine every week( 1-2 drop). I continued to give serum 4 days. And when I noticed that edema occured in its neck, I stopped to inject from its arm, and started to inject to its back leg carefully. I will send you the photos of its shell. Now, it becomes very active, has appetite, walks normally and there is no edema. Only eyes are sometimes a bit hoarse, especially when it first wakes up.. But the biggest problem is, its shell.. It has still dark stains.. They did not increase but there is no an obvious decreasing :D It takes a bath twice in a day with warm water.

shell of bigger one- 6 days ago
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shell of bigger one --yesterday...
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***The smaller one looked better when I bought it. But it became more sleepy three days ago. It started eat less and it has now two problems. One of them is under its shell, there is pink areas and small, thin, wihte circles. The other problem is on its neck, two sides became red- light purple. Its skin starts to peel. And another important point is that the pink- purple areas of its skin is wet, not dry apperance. It has no edema and it takes a bath twice in a day too. I injected it 3 antibiotic medicine (pan terramycin) because of its pink areas on the shell. I thought that they were because of lung infection. It might catch a cold in pet shop and also in their first terrarium, it always tried to bury itself to soil to avoid itself from lamp and warm.. In soil maybe it was cold because of soil's damp:( I took it from there and now it is also on the wood shavings. Their lamp is always open and they are warm.. The photos were taken yesterday, today the peeling is getting around through the back of neck and front legs, these areas become pink- purple too....

smaller one shell problems
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after 6 days
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smaller one skin ( around neck) problem
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With all respect..

#2 Guest_tigerdongal_*

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 02:32 PM

Its possible that the little one trying to hibernate, or maybe coming out of hibernation. Sounds like the bigger one is doing well. Its good that he drank a lot too, quite possibly dehydrated being in the pet shop. I hope the little one pulls round too. Good luck.

#3 Guest_rmetin_*

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 03:32 PM

Thank you very much for your answer. Will it be a serious sign that the skin became purple, pink, red and wet and peeled?

#4 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 05:38 PM

Hi there

I am no expert but this looks serious. It looks very much like the tortoise has septicaemia. It is imperitive that you get hold of andy highfield if you can (tortoise trust). I will email him for you as well on an urgent reply needed. You need to get a higher wattage bulb for the heat (6ow) as your tortoise is sick it needs to be kept warm. Get rid of the wood shavings and replace with top soil if you can or hemp (aubiose). Warm bathing is essential. the food offered should be edible weed and plant (see caresheet section above).

I'm unsure of the drops you are using.

Jade :D

#5 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 05:53 PM

Hi

Have emailed Andy.

One shows spurs so is not hermann but a spur thighed tortoise

Jade :D

#6 Guest_Flash Herman_*

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 08:02 PM

I almost cried when I saw these photos. It is unbelievable that the shop treated them like this. You should think about reporting them to the animal welfare authorities in Turkey (assuming there are some).
I'm sorry I cannot offer any practical advice as I am new to tortoise keeping, but I wish these little ones all the best and hope they end up OK. You seem to be their best chance at survival. Please keep the forum up to date with their progress.

#7 Guest_lepinsky_*

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 08:54 PM

Hi Rmetin,

Im so sorry that your tortoises are ill. It was very good of you to rescue them from that dreadful place they were in. I'm afraid I don't have the medical knowledge to answer your questions, and our resident expert is away at the moment, but I have asked another expert from another forum to look at your message to see if she can offer some advice.

We will keep our fingers crossed for you and your tortoises.
Nina
http://pets.groups.y...rotectionGroup/

#8 Guest_rockette_*

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 11:27 PM

Hello Rmetin,

I am afraid I am not an expert on tortoises but I wish them all good wishes and hope they get well soon. It made me very sad to read your message and to hear how desperate you were for help. It is so kind of you to pick out the poorly ones to help them.
Please let us know how things are going. I do hope you have a good outcome for the poor little things.

Best wishes

Pam

#9 Guest_rmetin_*

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:45 AM

Dear jadums, Flash Herman, lepinsky and rockette,

Thank you very much for your answers and wishes...
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Jadums, you said that it looks like septicaemia:( Our vet had said too.. And also he said that this tortoise would not live because the infection branched all over the lower shell...

Is it impossible that I can keep it alive???

Does septicaemia always kill??

Is injecting serum useful???

:D :( :(

#10 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 05:12 AM

I'm unsure of the serum i'm afraid.

as to whether the tortoises will survive i really couldn't tell you.

Quote from Andy Highfields book on septicaemia:
'[symptoms] include, vomiting, lethargy and sometimes a distinct reddish flush or tinge on the plastron or under the carapace shields... affected reptiles may drink excessivley.'

'when confronted with these symptoms, the most effective course of action usually is to administer an antibitocinjection as quickly as possible. Goo dresults have been obtained with framycetin (10mg/kg) and gentamycin (10mg/kg)... septicaemia may result from absecesses or as a result of other infected lesions.'

(Highfield, A. (2002) Practical encyclopedia of keeping and breeding tortoises and freshwater turtles)

Please remember that if these tortoises do unfortunaltey die then it is not your fault and you have done your very best trying to save their lives.

If your vet does think it is septacaemia and administers one of these antibiotics it is impertive you keep them warm (one end 22 degrees c and the other 322). this includes at night although if possible at night there should be heat but no light.

I noticed also one of the torts the ear looks a bit funny (looks quite dented), maybe this is the photo but check this out with the vet as well.

I wish you luck and hopefully all is well but remember you have done your best no matter what :D

#11 Guest_lepinsky_*

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:36 AM

Hi,

I see you've been given some good advice by people on the Shelled Warriors forum, and I do hope that your little tortoises recover. I am full of admiration at your story of trying to improve the life of animals in Turkey, and I wish you the very best of luck for your efforts in future.

Nina
http://pets.groups.y...rotectionGroup/

#12 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 12:02 PM

Hello

How are the torts gettingon? I hope all is fine :D

#13 Guest_rmetin_*

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 03:48 PM

Thak you all friends... I have good news:)

Smaller one has no problem with its skin. There are no red spots now:) According to Danny's advice, I bought Neomycin. This medicine stopped the peeling:) After that it started to eat and walk fast.

Also I bought the gentamycin for the dark spots(whether it is septicaemia or not) I injected every two days a small dose..

Now they look very healthy but I am afraid of the spots under their shells still..

Here the photos as I posted in shelled warriors
Both of them:

(left one is Kumpir, right one is Cambo)

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Cambo:

the pink spots, some point purple and dark spots under the shell:

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Kumpir:

the green dark spots under the shell:

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#14 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 08:06 PM

I am so happy the torts are ok. i was really worried about them. So pleased for you :D

#15 Guest_rockette_*

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 11:59 PM

Hello there,

I to feel very happy to hear that your tortoises are now such a lot better. Thankyou for coming back to let us know how they are doing. You must be feeling great!

Pam

#16 Guest_jadums_*

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:02 AM

Hi

I spoke to my friend who helped give me advice last week about your torts. She said it most prob was septacaemia they had but you managed to get it just in time which is brillinat. Just keep up the good husbandry and they will be fin eim sure :D

#17 Guest_lepinsky_*

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:46 PM

What great news! I'm so glad that your tortoises are better now, and many congratulations to you for saving their lives and giving them a good home. They are beautiful tortoises and they are very lucky to have found you.



Nina
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