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Golden Greeks


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#1 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 08:30 PM

A pair of "Golden" greeks I got this year.
The female

The male



#2 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 08:31 PM

They are lovely too, what amazing tortoises, thanks for posting them.:)


#3 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 08:53 PM

Again Dan beautiful little tortoises , i have been after this sub species my self i see they are readily available in the states unfortunately the ones i have been offered here in the uk are hatchling imports or they are very light coloured ibera


#4 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 08:57 PM

There are both species coming in here T. floweri, which the male is and T. terrestris, which the female is.


#5 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 09:03 PM

It's so nice to see different tortoises, do you have anyone helping you?:)


#6 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 09:06 PM

No it's just me :D . I do have my niece look after them when I go down to Florida in August and I try to take a trip some time around May too.


#7 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 11:35 PM

Hi Dan whats the tell tale differences between floweri and terrestris


#8 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 01:27 AM

T. floweri has a sloping front to the shell and the supracaudal scute is only barely turned under in males and straight in females.

T. terrestris has a more rounded carapace and the supracaudal is turned under in both males and females. Males being curled under more.



#9 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 10:28 AM

Thanks for the infomation Dan if you no any sites etc on mediterranean spur thigh identifacation it would be most appreciated


#10 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 10:09 PM

Hi Darren
This site is good http://www.tartaclub.....ca terrestris
Just when you get into the terrestris one be prepared for tortoises from all over. Thats the only thing wrong, if you don't know what your looking at you'll be lost. All most all the others are really good. The one on hermanns they messed up a few of the pictures too.
The articles and pictures are good here too
http://www.chelonia....udo_gallery.htm
If you want to see lots of neat pictures that you'll have no idea what they are check this out
http://www.v-house.c...st.cgi?mode=rik
Dan


#11 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 04:08 PM

Thanks Dan the first site has been great help, looks like my iberas are seveal sub varities of ibera good job they aren't mixed only breed from similar animals


#12 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 04:46 PM

If you want to post some pictures of your iberas when you get your camera that would be great. So which ones do you think they are?


#13 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 05:10 PM

There in hibernation at the moment but a pair appear to be Testudo graeca anamurensis and a trio of testudo graeca aremiaca have two 16yr old females also that are hybrids between the two i will send you some pics as soon as they wake i'm sure you will be able to confirm there origins for me



#14 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 05:19 PM

Also been told that they are all still testudo graeca ibera just regional variations and they are so similar that breeding from them isn't going to be a problem but there are characteristics which are very different from each other , i have been aware that apair where testudo ibera anamurensis this pair have been very prolific over there life span with me , wish they where awake so i could show you what do you think about them being classed seperatly do you think its wrong to allow them to breed as just ibera


#15 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 05:52 PM

Right now DNA and subspecies aren't quite on the same page. DNA is great for specie, which has shown that the North African and the Middle East greeks are different specie. So most of the Middle eastern and European greeks are Testudo ibera with a few different subspecies and yes from what I can tell anamurensis and armeniaca are subspecies. anamurensis are very different being low and flared like a Marginated tortoise and from what Highfield has said males get bigger then females like Marginated, which might even elevate them to specie status. So I'd keep them seperated like you already have and as Highfield always says breed like to like :D .


#16 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 06:22 PM

Well the tortoise trust have identified them as ibera regional variations with suggestions they may be anamurensis and armeniaca but couldn't commit to this as i didn't no country of origin was told to keep them as you said like to like but on the hatchlings article 10s (don't no if you have these in the states for meds) latin name as testudo graeca ibrea was the name to state.
Heres some pictures of a friends huge female first picture is of her with a 9inch ibera female(ibera is the small one) and a few of her on her own she was thought to be a marginated what do you think i thought zarundnyi possible


#17 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 07:11 PM

She's from Eastern Turkey, probably armeniaca. T. zarundnyi has a really small femoral scute seam and her's is much bigger.


#18 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 07:47 PM

Thanks Dan Your to clever for me heres some more pics that i already have on saved of some of my torts see what you think
1st one big male i thought ibera
2rd one male i thought graeca graeca
i will see if i can find some more hope you don't mind



#19 Guest_p1glet_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 08:00 PM

Found some more
female ?about 8inches s,c,l
male i thougth anamurensis about 9inches s,c.l


#20 Guest_egyptiandan64_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 08:51 PM

The male and female are both anamurensis.





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