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Melon rind


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#1 Guest_italytors_*

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 12:44 PM

Hi everybody. Posted this in the wrong section before. Hope this goes in correctly now. blink.gif
Can I share something I think is useful ? When you buy a melon, don’t throw the rind away whatever kind it is (water melon, honeydew or any other). Tortoises love gnawing on them. I leave a little bit of the pulp on (melons would be part of their diet in their natural habitat in the south of Italy and mine love it) and watch them gnaw at it for hours. Gnawing helps them keep their jaws and “teeth” healthy. The way they go at it I sometimes think there must be something in the rind we can’t appreciate! The bigger the slice, the easier it is for them.
The only down-side ? The left-overs – usually only a thin sliver of peel – must be removed as soon as the tortoises get tired of it otherwise you will have ants everywhere. They love it too.
P.s. If the experts think I might be giving bad information (maybe there are different do’s and don’ts because of the different climate here in Italy), please let me know. I will not mind at all. I am not an expert and just wish to share my experiences when possible - and learn how to make my torties' life in captivity as pleasant as possible reading about other people’s findings.
Would love to know what you think.
'Bye for now

#2 Guest_cyberangel_*

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 02:21 PM

Feeding fruit is a no no over here, as it can be done in excess. If my tortoises find a blackberry or strawberry in my garden I dont worry. But I dont feed fruit to them, as it can upset their gut flora if over done.
If they naturally find fruit its a lot different to actually feeding it too them.

#3 Guest_Freddy McGavin_*

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 03:13 PM

Hi there and welcome!!!
Tortoises eat fruits in the wild as supplementary nutrition.They only eat a small amount of fruit just enough to satisfy themselves. So I wouldn't feed it to them on a regular basis.A little as a treat on rare occasions does no harm.As they say everything in moderation!!!Best of luck!!!
Kind Regards
Freddy&Billiejo biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

#4 Guest_Ozric_*

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:37 PM

Hi! I doubt that melons are a native plant to the south of Italy as apart from anything else melons have been bred over time and probably don't have much in common with whatever plant they came from. When melons are growing they require really quite a lot of water which would tend not to be available in southern Italy in the summer. Its not a wild plant.

Of course tortoises will eat stuff like this because its sweet and juicy but personally I don't think it does them any good. We might feel good watching them eat it though. Does it do harm? I don't know.

My view is, a very little fruit very occasionally. If any.

#5 Guest_italytors_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 08:23 AM

QUOTE (Freddy McGavin @ Jun 12 2010, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi there and welcome!!!
Tortoises eat fruits in the wild as supplementary nutrition.They only eat a small amount of fruit just enough to satisfy themselves. So I wouldn't feed it to them on a regular basis.A little as a treat on rare occasions does no harm.As they say everything in moderation!!!Best of luck!!!
Kind Regards
Freddy&Billiejo biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


Hi, Freddie and Billiejoe, and thanks for the welcome.
As you say, everything in moderation. I don't give them a lot of fruit. Only as a treat every now and then. And I only leave a tiny bit of the fruit itself on the melon peel (I like it too much myself!!) and give it to them purely because I have noticed they need to gnaw on something sometimes. It is the outer side they are most interested in, not the fruit itself. The graeca gnaws away at a dried cuttle fish bone and totally ignores the melon peel, or all fruit come to that.
I read about leaving a dried cuttle fish bone out for them in a book on tortoises.
Their main diet is greens. Most kinds of lettuce, green and red, different kinds of raw veg and plenty of weeds that they either find in the garden or I pick for them when out on walks. Dandelions leaves seem to be their favourite. I also give them soaked tortoise food pellets once a week to be sure they are getting enough calcium and vits.
Actually I only discovered the melon rind thing by chance. The larger hermanni managed to get out of its enclosure once and followed me straight into the house. (It follows me around like a dog when it can). I didn't even know it was loose until I found it gnawing away on a piece of melon rind it had dragged out of a rubbish bag on the kitchen floor !! It had ignored all the other rubbish ....luckily. What a mess !
Thanks again. Kind regards and hugs to your torties !
M



#6 Guest_italytors_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 08:41 AM

QUOTE (Ozric @ Jun 13 2010, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi! I doubt that melons are a native plant to the south of Italy as apart from anything else melons have been bred over time and probably don't have much in common with whatever plant they came from. When melons are growing they require really quite a lot of water which would tend not to be available in southern Italy in the summer. Its not a wild plant.

Of course tortoises will eat stuff like this because its sweet and juicy but personally I don't think it does them any good. We might feel good watching them eat it though. Does it do harm? I don't know.

My view is, a very little fruit very occasionally. If any.


Hi Ozric. Nice to meet you.
Sorry to contradict .... but melons are a native plant to the south of italy, at least now. Water melons abound. I don't know whether they were brought in originally or what, but they are common in many areas and do also grow in the wild now - although the wild ones are ignored. Water melons in particular. They are sold on every street corner in Rome and in the south of Italy in summer and are commonly grown in vegetable plots in the north of Italy too, they are so easy to grow and so popular.
However, getting back to main point. I did specify I do not feed the melon itself to torties. I give them the rind to gnaw on. If there is a small amount of pulp left on and they eat it I am sure it will not harm them in small amounts. It is mainly liquid as you say. The main point of my message was that I believe they need something to gnaw on.
I apologise if I led anyone to believe that I am promoting giving tortoises fruit all the time.
Do your tortoises have anything to gnaw on ? Do you think gnawing is bad for them or useful ?
Cheers.



#7 Guest_Ozric_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 10:12 AM

Hi M! Don't be sorry to contradict me as I was obviously wrong about the melons at least in so far as they grow in a natural way in the wilds in the south of Italy. You are there and I am not so it's my apology to you!!

From where I am sitting here on a dull and rainy day in Scotland it seems to me that you are very lucky being where you are. Perhaps even within what is left of the range of the Hermanni Hermanni tortoise which is so special to me. And certainly you cannot be far away from places where they might still live around the coasts. I would be very intersted in anything you can tell me about the Hermanni Hermanni tortoise in Italy.

Is it good for a tortoise to gnaw on something? Yes I think it is good for them to work their jaws and to keep the beak down. I don't think small amounts of melon rind would be harmful for gnawing on. The reason why people like me and Sandy are not at all keen on fruit being fed is that in the past lots of tortoises here in the UK were fed on really awful diets with lots of fruit, bread and other rubbish that did a lot of harm to them.

#8 Guest_cyberangel_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:25 AM

I just think tortoises must come across fruit in the wild, but only seasonal and not very often. Keepers over here, start with a little bit of fruit, and because the tortoise will eat it, they carry on feeding. Which is not good. So random fruit is fine, but regular is not.


#9 Guest_italytors_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:32 AM

QUOTE (Ozric @ Jun 13 2010, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi M! Don't be sorry to contradict me as I was obviously wrong about the melons at least in so far as they grow in a natural way in the wilds in the south of Italy. You are there and I am not so it's my apology to you!!

From where I am sitting here on a dull and rainy day in Scotland it seems to me that you are very lucky being where you are. Perhaps even within what is left of the range of the Hermanni Hermanni tortoise which is so special to me. And certainly you cannot be far away from places where they might still live around the coasts. I would be very intersted in anything you can tell me about the Hermanni Hermanni tortoise in Italy.

Is it good for a tortoise to gnaw on something? Yes I think it is good for them to work their jaws and to keep the beak down. I don't think small amounts of melon rind would be harmful for gnawing on. The reason why people like me and Sandy are not at all keen on fruit being fed is that in the past lots of tortoises here in the UK were fed on really awful diets with lots of fruit, bread and other rubbish that did a lot of harm to them.


Hi Ozric.
Unfortunately I don't live by the coast but the climate is definitely better than in the UK. Sorry it is dull and rainy where you are. But it might console you to know it is not a particularly clear day here today. In fact I think there is a thunder storm on it's way.

I can understand why you and everyone else advises not too give torties a lot of fruit and I think your advice on feeding is fantastic. It is a pity that some tortoise owners don't gen up on their pets before getting into harmful routines. The same happens here. Although the main problem over here seems to be pet abandonment, including tortoises.

I would love to tell you about my torties.
I got my first two hermannis as hatchlings, the size of my thumbnail, in 1994. I lived in the outskirts of Milan at the time. A friend of mine, who had been giving her hatchlings to the WWF each year to help repopulate a national park in Sardinia (where they were becoming extinct), asked me to take them off her hands because that year the WWF had completed the project in the area in question and hadn’t been able to start a similar project elsewhere for some reason or other. She was stuck with 12 hatchlings and needed help. I took two and followed the CITES certificate procedure to make sure it was all above board. They are now two healthy, active sixteen year-olds and have never had to be taken to a vet’s. I check their size and weight ratio regularly.
Then, in 1998 a neighbour of mine called me over to her house saying she had found a tortoise in her garden. I don’t actually believe that was the case (they used to go to the south of Italy on holiday each year and I think they brought it back with them and then the novelty wore off) but, whatever the circumstances, she wanted rid of it. When I first saw it it was hiding under a pile of compost in their garden. Filthy dirty and very sad looking. By its size I guessed it was at least 10-12 years old then (but it could have been older due to malnutrition, it was grossly underweight). I knew she would just abandon it if I didn’t take it, so it joined the family. I cleaned it up, fed it and built a quarantine pen for it. The following year, after a good hibernation period, I put it in with my other two hermannis. At first they seemed to get on fairly well. By the way, each tortoise has always had a separate “hutch” to go into of a night if they want to ... although they generally huddle together inside one. The problems of butting and biting started the following year so I put the rescued one back into its original quarantine enclosure on its own. It stayed there until four years ago, when I was asked to take in a hatchling another neighbour had found on the pavement alongside a busy road.
That is the one I now think is a graeca. I couldn’t tell at the time it was so small and the markings were hard to distinguish. I put it in quarantine and over-wintered it. Two years ago I put it in with my original hermannis for the summers. They seemed to ignore it and it looked nervous.
The two enclosures in the garden have one common fence in the middle and last year I noticed the eldest hermanni and the graeca were always sniffing at each other through the fence on their respective sides so I tried putting them (the two “loners”) together. They seemed to hit off.
This year I moved to the Lake Como area. It took the torties a while to settle in to their new surroundings in spring but now I have placed some plants out in the garden for them, they seem quite happy. However, I am going to follow the advice of the experts on this forum, and separate the two rescued tortoises. Separate enclosures are in progress!

Hope I haven't bored you with all this info !! I'd love to hear about yours, too.

As regards Hermannis in general in Italy, their numbers are increasing now thanks to the WWF projects and similar initiatives. But unfortunately the general attitude towards pets in Italy leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion. I have had heated discussions with people who think it is okay to bore a hole in their shells and chain them to a post so they can't escape !! There are, however, a lot of people who love them and do their best to make their captivity a happy one.
Depending on the area, they have a long summer here of course, which means they have plenty of time to prepare for hibernation. Mine come out of hibernation around about March. After a warm bath etc., they take a week or so to get fully back to normal as regards eating. I find June is the month they seem to be ravenous. I don't know where they store it all sometimes. Then, when it gets very very hot in July and August they eat well but less than before for some reason or other. Maybe their digestive system doesn't work as well when it is extremely warm ? I don't know. Then towards the end of August their eating habits pick up again until about the end of September, when they start slowing down. Usually mine clamber into their hutches for hibernation towards the end of October. Once they stop coming out during the day and the temperature starts dropping below about 15°C I secure their hutches and put them away for the winter.

Oh dear. This has turned into a marathon message. Sorry about that.
I really would love to hear about how your torties behave in Scotland. How long can they stay out for in summer over there ?
It is so nice to be exchange this kind of information. I didn't have torties in the UK so don't know what the differences may be as regards husbandry.

'Bye for now
M



#10 Guest_Ozric_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 02:20 PM

Thanks M for all that information. It is ALL of interest to me and I'm sure others here too. I would love to see photos of your Hermannis if you have any to post. In fact all of us here love to see pics of tortoises of any kind.

It is good to know that the population of Hermanni Hermanni is holding up in Italy. Too much developemnt in coastal areas drives them away and habitat loss in France has been very sad. The French Hermanni Hermanni is slightly different to the Italian one. The tortoises that I have are of the French type and what the French call Corse i.e. like those on Corsica. They also recognise another type they call Varoise i.e. from the Var region.

My own story is not very interesting compared to yours but I started off with Hermanni Hermanni tortoises really just by chance. Later I found that these are in fact rarely offered for sale in the UK. When I wanted some more of them I had a terrible job finding any. After about two years of searching far and wide someone who knows someone else contacted a breeder in France who offered me four one year olds and I went over there on the ferry to get them and brought them back on the train from England. I did get all the right documents which is very important as far as the French authorities are concerned because they have laws to try and prevent wild ones being taken and sold abroad. I didn't actually bother with making any customs declaration though because this would have caused a massive delay due to the customs people not knowing their own rules.

Anyway I got the little ones home and at the moment I have 6 altogether. I don't keep any other kind of tortoises or animals at all. I've done lots of work in my garden and last year I made a big investment in a special coldframe which is made of material that allows 60% of UVB to go through it. You won't need to worry where you are about UVB but its a concern for me. My tortoises move around freely in and out of the coldframe all day and I have some heating and lighting gadgets in there for those days when the weather is too poor.

I keep mine outside from some time in May till early October. This means they have to spend two period each year indoors. I made a large wooden frame on the floor on my spare room and filled this with earth, rocks and logs. I use artificial lighting and heating to keep them going. I do hibernate them for a minimum of eight weeks and I do this artificially in the fridge. The older ones get longer and I keep an eye on their weights before hibernating.



#11 Guest_italytors_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Ozric @ Jun 13 2010, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks M for all that information. It is ALL of interest to me and I'm sure others here too. I would love to see photos of your Hermannis if you have any to post. In fact all of us here love to see pics of tortoises of any kind.

It is good to know that the population of Hermanni Hermanni is holding up in Italy. Too much developemnt in coastal areas drives them away and habitat loss in France has been very sad. The French Hermanni Hermanni is slightly different to the Italian one. The tortoises that I have are of the French type and what the French call Corse i.e. like those on Corsica. They also recognise another type they call Varoise i.e. from the Var region.

My own story is not very interesting compared to yours but I started off with Hermanni Hermanni tortoises really just by chance. Later I found that these are in fact rarely offered for sale in the UK. When I wanted some more of them I had a terrible job finding any. After about two years of searching far and wide someone who knows someone else contacted a breeder in France who offered me four one year olds and I went over there on the ferry to get them and brought them back on the train from England. I did get all the right documents which is very important as far as the French authorities are concerned because they have laws to try and prevent wild ones being taken and sold abroad. I didn't actually bother with making any customs declaration though because this would have caused a massive delay due to the customs people not knowing their own rules.

Anyway I got the little ones home and at the moment I have 6 altogether. I don't keep any other kind of tortoises or animals at all. I've done lots of work in my garden and last year I made a big investment in a special coldframe which is made of material that allows 60% of UVB to go through it. You won't need to worry where you are about UVB but its a concern for me. My tortoises move around freely in and out of the coldframe all day and I have some heating and lighting gadgets in there for those days when the weather is too poor.

I keep mine outside from some time in May till early October. This means they have to spend two period each year indoors. I made a large wooden frame on the floor on my spare room and filled this with earth, rocks and logs. I use artificial lighting and heating to keep them going. I do hibernate them for a minimum of eight weeks and I do this artificially in the fridge. The older ones get longer and I keep an eye on their weights before hibernating.


Hi again, Ozric.
Thanks for telling me all about your torties. It looks as though you have to work a lot harder than Ido to keep them healthy and happy ! I am impressed.
I didn't know there were different kinds of Hermannis. I thought they were all the same so that was an interesting thing to learn. I am amazed they only hibernate for such a short period though. I guess that is due to the cooler climate, is it ?
I would be more than happy to post some photos but, shame on me, I don't know how to do that ! I am not a forum-user usually, so don't know all the techniques. If you can tell me how, I will try.


#12 Guest_italytors_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE (cyberangel @ Jun 13 2010, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just think tortoises must come across fruit in the wild, but only seasonal and not very often. Keepers over here, start with a little bit of fruit, and because the tortoise will eat it, they carry on feeding. Which is not good. So random fruit is fine, but regular is not.


Hi cyberangel. I agree whole-heartedly. smile.gif


#13 Guest_Freddy McGavin_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 10:18 PM

QUOTE (italytors @ Jun 13 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi, Freddie and Billiejoe, and thanks for the welcome.
As you say, everything in moderation. I don't give them a lot of fruit. Only as a treat every now and then. And I only leave a tiny bit of the fruit itself on the melon peel (I like it too much myself!!) and give it to them purely because I have noticed they need to gnaw on something sometimes. It is the outer side they are most interested in, not the fruit itself. The graeca gnaws away at a dried cuttle fish bone and totally ignores the melon peel, or all fruit come to that.
I read about leaving a dried cuttle fish bone out for them in a book on tortoises.
Their main diet is greens. Most kinds of lettuce, green and red, different kinds of raw veg and plenty of weeds that they either find in the garden or I pick for them when out on walks. Dandelions leaves seem to be their favourite. I also give them soaked tortoise food pellets once a week to be sure they are getting enough calcium and vits.
Actually I only discovered the melon rind thing by chance. The larger hermanni managed to get out of its enclosure once and followed me straight into the house. (It follows me around like a dog when it can). I didn't even know it was loose until I found it gnawing away on a piece of melon rind it had dragged out of a rubbish bag on the kitchen floor !! It had ignored all the other rubbish ....luckily. What a mess !
Thanks again. Kind regards and hugs to your torties !
M

Hi M,
It's obvious from what you have said that you are doing all the right things for your torts.You also have them a long time!!! It's great to hear about torts. in their own climates. You sound like a very passionate and caring keeper and I wish you the best of luck with your little tort family !!!
Kind Regards Freddy&Billiejo biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

#14 Guest_Ozric_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 10:46 PM

About the different kinds of Hermanni tortoises - I don't understand this totally. At the moment I believe that three subspecies of Hermann are officially recognised and one of those is the Hermanni Hermanni. In those places where this tortoise is found, the appearance of the tortoise is different in various locations. These are regional differences and not necessarily genetic ones. I believe that several regional types are recognised in Italy as well but I don't know anything much about that except one of them is Puglia.

Hibernation is a big subject and there are all kinds of opinions on it. Once you take the tortoise out of its normal climate range it gets complicated. What I do is to hibernate the younger and smaller ones for a shorter time because a lot of people think this is safer. I also watch their weight very carefully when they are hibernating in case they loose too much. A fridge is basically a dry place no matter what you do and this is one of the problems with it. Younger tortoises which are being kept in a place like Scotland really do need a lot of human interference to manage hibernation. Mature tortoises might be hibernated for 4 months or possibly longer. Hibernation in natural conditions like you have is so much easier for the tortoise but its just impossible for me to copy this in my climate.

Nowadays in the UK most people who get a tortoise start off with a little one that is a couple of years old. We tend to think they are very delicate and of course a tortoise that age is really very small. As you know, a tortoise lives off it's reserves when it is hibernating and so if it hasn't built up good reserves over the summer (maybe due to not being warm and feeding as much as it should be) it might not survive a longer hibernation.

#15 Guest_Freddy McGavin_*

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:57 PM

QUOTE (Ozric @ Jun 13 2010, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
About the different kinds of Hermanni tortoises - I don't understand this totally. At the moment I believe that three subspecies of Hermann are officially recognised and one of those is the Hermanni Hermanni. In those places where this tortoise is found, the appearance of the tortoise is different in various locations. These are regional differences and not necessarily genetic ones. I believe that several regional types are recognised in Italy as well but I don't know anything much about that except one of them is Puglia.

Hibernation is a big subject and there are all kinds of opinions on it. Once you take the tortoise out of its normal climate range it gets complicated. What I do is to hibernate the younger and smaller ones for a shorter time because a lot of people think this is safer. I also watch their weight very carefully when they are hibernating in case they loose too much. A fridge is basically a dry place no matter what you do and this is one of the problems with it. Younger tortoises which are being kept in a place like Scotland really do need a lot of human interference to manage hibernation. Mature tortoises might be hibernated for 4 months or possibly longer. Hibernation in natural conditions like you have is so much easier for the tortoise but its just impossible for me to copy this in my climate.

Nowadays in the UK most people who get a tortoise start off with a little one that is a couple of years old. We tend to think they are very delicate and of course a tortoise that age is really very small. As you know, a tortoise lives off it's reserves when it is hibernating and so if it hasn't built up good reserves over the summer (maybe due to not being warm and feeding as much as it should be) it might not survive a longer hibernation.

Hi Oz & M,
You might like to check out Wikipedia,the free online encyclopedia under Hermann's Tortoise to read about the different types of this species and their current status!! Kind Regards Freddy&Billiejo biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

#16 Guest_Dawn_*

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 07:02 AM

QUOTE (Freddy McGavin @ Jun 14 2010, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Oz & M,
You might like to check out Wikipedia,the free online encyclopedia under Hermann's Tortoise to read about the different types of this species and their current status!! Kind Regards Freddy&Billiejo biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


Just remember though that Wilipedia are the views of laypeople NOT experts, so I wouldn't take too much notice. You are far better off reading either websites dedicated to torts like British Cheleoinan Trust or Tortoise Trust or reading books for example Wolfgang's book (though this is aimed more at HB's than HH's).


#17 Guest_italytors_*

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:31 AM

I browsed the forum last night and think I know how to post photos now so will post a few of my hermannis. I am curious now and will try to find some more info about the differences.

As regards hibernation, yes it is really easy for me. As soon as I see they have stopped eating, emptied their kidneys, stopped coming out of their hutches and are buried down deep in the soil I just secure the hutch entrances (using strong mesh, against mice etc.), add a bit of straw, then wrap the hutches in old blankets and store them away somewhere where the temperature doesn't drop below freezing. If it is a really cold winter I place a shed heater in their vicinity. Then I can just forget about them until the following March, when they go straight back into the garden as soon as they wake up.
I really admire what you all do. And I suppose it is even harder for someone living Scotland. How do you gauge how long to hibernate them for ?

I will also try to post a few photos I took this morning of the tortoise I wasn't sure about. The one I said I thought was a spurless graeca. Last summer it definitely did not have spurs. I think they have sprouted now !! biggrin.gif There is a small bulge on each thigh, which I think may become spurs over time. That makes me more convinced it is a graeca but would be really grateful if someone on this forum could identify it definitively for me.
Cheers
M




#18 Guest_Hettie_*

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:51 AM

Hi M,

Really interesting reading about the differences in keeping torts where you are compared to over here. It sounds ideal over there. Be careful or we shall all be lodging in your back garden!! biggrin.gif laugh.gif


Yes, I'm sure if you post some pictures somebody on here would be able to help you identify your tortoise.

Paula x

#19 Guest_Freddy McGavin_*

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:08 AM

QUOTE (Dawn @ Jun 14 2010, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just remember though that Wilipedia are the views of laypeople NOT experts, so I wouldn't take too much notice. You are far better off reading either websites dedicated to torts like British Cheleoinan Trust or Tortoise Trust or reading books for example Wolfgang's book (though this is aimed more at HB's than HH's).

Hi all!!!
The Wikipedia page I'm referring to is a scientific one and can be viewed by googling Hermann's Tortoise and then clicking on the wikipedia link!!!There is also a wikimedia commons link on the bottom right corner of the same page with excellent Hermann pics. useful for identifying different types and forms!!! I found it very accurate and very helpful!!!
Best Regards
Freddy

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:55 AM

QUOTE (Hettie @ Jun 14 2010, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi M,

Really interesting reading about the differences in keeping torts where you are compared to over here. It sounds ideal over there. Be careful or we shall all be lodging in your back garden!! biggrin.gif laugh.gif


Yes, I'm sure if you post some pictures somebody on here would be able to help you identify your tortoise.

Paula x


Hi Hettie,

Knocko, the cheeky one, is very protective of his garden and would be crawling all over anybody who tried to lodge there !! laugh.gif I have trouble even cutting the grass. He's got a vicious bite, mad.gif although he is a big softy at other times.
But if any forum-users are in the area I can guarantee a decent cup of coffee or a pot of tea..... biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
M x





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