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Hello and Identification Please


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#1 Guest_HenryV111_*

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 06:00 PM

First of all I would like to say a big hello to Admin and the members of the forum.

I have been browsing the forum the last couple of days and decided to join as I am looking for advice and would be grateful for it.

I have just bought my wife a tortoise after she fell in love with it at our local garden centre. Now non of us have had any experience except the last couple of days with Shelly (The Tortoise) or any other tortoise. So please go easy with us.


This is what we have been up to so far:

Buying Housing and Bits Needed
We purchased an open cage approx 2ft by 3ft for the time been with wooden enclosure, soil mix, heat lamp and UV strip light and temperature monitor, food and water trays until we get more experience and then maybe some outside stuff later.

Feeding
Last couple of days we have fed a handful each morning of mixed food some of which we picked consisting of Dandelion leaves, a couple of honeysuckle flowers, a couple of fuscia flowers, grated carrot and cabbage topped with a sprinkle of Nutrobol.

Other
We have let her bath in approx 1inch of water for a half hour or so each day.
The basking temprature is around 30c and background temp at night is around 10c-15c.
The heat lamp is turned of around 7pm and the UV strip light around nine until around 7.30am the next morning.


Would love to know are we doing right so far and also would love a positive ID on Shelly as the DEFRA Artical 10 Just says TESTUDO HERMANNI.

I done a little reading and was trying to figure out if Shelly was BOETTGERI or Hermmani etc and wether Shelly was a Female or Male but have given up.

Any Help and advice appreciated.

Will try to post images with the post

Henry

PS Forgot to mention she has four nails and is approx 12cm and was hatched 2005 according to the paper work.




...

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#2 Guest_littledeedee_*

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 06:12 PM

Hi Henry and welcome.

there is alot of experience on here so sit tight and Im sure people will come along with advice.

Id say that she is indeed a Hermans and by the size of her tail, would say she is a girly.


welcome to the crazy world of being a tort parent!

D
x

#3 Guest_brucefairweather_*

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 06:20 PM

hi, i would say its a female hecrcegovinesis.
your set up seems fine not sure about what you are feeding though.i wouldnt feed cabbage or carrots.try for a more weeds.not to great on flowers so cant help you there sorry!!

#4 Guest_Hettie_*

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:46 PM


Hi there, welcome to the forum. biggrin.gif

Go easy on you!! LOL! Were a friendly bunch and are happy to help if we can. laugh.gif

Can you get the basking temp to 32C?

Usually people say 12 hours of heat/Uv but if you are going to overwinter and keep torty up through the winter, my vet once advised to up this to 14hours to try and 'trick' torty into thinking it's summer... not convinced she was ever tricked but followed advice anyhow! rolleyes.gif

30 mins is quite a long bath, do you change the water to keep it lukewarm? 20 mins should be enough, but as long as Shelly is happy... if scrambling wildly I would get her out sooner.

Cabbage can stop the arbsorbtion of calcium so should be avoided. Have a look in our plant section, edible weeds are everywhere right now.

What is your soil mix? Plain bagged topsoil with no additives is ideal.

Paula x




#5 Guest_Ozric_*

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:50 PM

Hi and a big welcome! I agree with Bruce about this tortoise and say it is a Testudo Hermanni Hercegovinensis. A lovely looking tortoise which also has an unusual shape to his vertebral scutes. Those are the shapes along the top which are a bit like crazy paving on this tortoise. Each is unique of course but this tort does have a squiggly look about him. He's lovely - I'm no good at sexing them!

DEFRA certs for all Hermanns say Hermanni; they don't distinguish between sub species.

This time of year there are probably quite a few weeds around that are suitable - plantains are still going, also some Sow Thistles and maybe other plants like sedum spectabile easily found.

This looks like a very nice animal. You may see us blabbing on about hibernation here. If you are brand new to keeping tortoises you might decide to keep this one up all winter and get to know his lovely habits.

Ozric



#6 Guest_miller07_*

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:26 PM

QUOTE (HenryV111 @ Nov 9 2010, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First of all I would like to say a big hello to Admin and the members of the forum.

I have been browsing the forum the last couple of days and decided to join as I am looking for advice and would be grateful for it.

I have just bought my wife a tortoise after she fell in love with it at our local garden centre. Now non of us have had any experience except the last couple of days with Shelly (The Tortoise) or any other tortoise. So please go easy with us.


This is what we have been up to so far:

Buying Housing and Bits Needed
We purchased an open cage approx 2ft by 3ft for the time been with wooden enclosure, soil mix, heat lamp and UV strip light and temperature monitor, food and water trays until we get more experience and then maybe some outside stuff later.

Feeding
Last couple of days we have fed a handful each morning of mixed food some of which we picked consisting of Dandelion leaves, a couple of honeysuckle flowers, a couple of fuscia flowers, grated carrot and cabbage topped with a sprinkle of Nutrobol.

Other
We have let her bath in approx 1inch of water for a half hour or so each day.
The basking temprature is around 30c and background temp at night is around 10c-15c.
The heat lamp is turned of around 7pm and the UV strip light around nine until around 7.30am the next morning.


Would love to know are we doing right so far and also would love a positive ID on Shelly as the DEFRA Artical 10 Just says TESTUDO HERMANNI.

I done a little reading and was trying to figure out if Shelly was BOETTGERI or Hermmani etc and wether Shelly was a Female or Male but have given up.

Any Help and advice appreciated.

Will try to post images with the post

Henry

PS Forgot to mention she has four nails and is approx 12cm and was hatched 2005 according to the paper work.




...


Hi just wanted to say welcome to the Forum, t's a friendly and helpfull place and congrats on becoming a tort owner smile.gif Your new tort looks lovely and looks to have a lovely smooth shell.
Your setup sounds fab, maybe you could add some pics of this when you get a chance biggrin.gif
Here's a couple of links that you may find useful RE feeding wink.gif
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/enews/
http://www.thetortoi...oise_home_1.asp


#7 Guest_Freddy McGavin_*

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:42 PM

Hello Henry,
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new tortoise. I don't want to be too hard on you but it's a little late in the season for buying a new tortoise as winter time is usually hibernation time for torts . Something the garden center should have been aware of but probably neglected to tell you. I understand that as someone who is new to tortoise keeping you probably didn't know this and that's fine. Anyway it might be aswell to check if Shelly has been hibernated before as she is 5 years old and the chances are that she probably has. You might also find that if she begins to slow down or stops eating you may have to decide whether or not to hibernate her. But don't worry, there is plenty of advice about this here on the forum although opinions may differ. Personally, I'm a stickler for hibernation, particularly when tortoises are healthy and a good weight or have been hibernated before. As I like to do things right. Finally, It would also be wise to weigh Shelly and have her checked over by a vet. This is just a precaution for a new tortoise. Anyway Henry, I wish you many happy years with Shelly and I hope you enjoy your time here on the forum. I'm sure there will be more, helpful advice along soon. Best of luck wink.gif
Kind Regards
Freddy biggrin.gif

#8 Guest_HenryV111_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 08:25 AM

Morning all,

Would like to say a quick thanks for the reply's.

I have to shoot of to work now and will post more later but for the time been I have taken a couple more images of Shelly to help identify the sub species.

Thanks, Later

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#9 Guest_brucefairweather_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 09:16 AM

well!!!with the new pics i am not so sure!!!!dhoo!i have 4 boettgeri and 5 hercegovinenesis.all my boettgeri have the scute where the leg is and some of the herc have them to but not as noticable as the boettgeri so i could be swinging towards boettgeri now.dont you just hate it when some one changes their mind!!!
it is not one of the westerns for sure


bruce

#10 Guest_HenryV111_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 03:33 PM

QUOTE ("littledeedee")
there is alot of experience on here so sit tight and Im sure people will come along with advice

Hello and thanks deedee.

QUOTE ("brucefairweather")
i wouldnt feed cabbage or carrots.try for a more weeds

Hello Bruce. Lady at the garden centre told me about the items so ended up giving Shelly a small amount of cabbage and small amount of grated carrot mixed with dandelion. Now moved over to Plantain, Dandelion, Mixed with Lettuce and Kale topped with Nutrobol and the odd Fuscia flower until I can do some more research.

QUOTE ("Hettie")
Can you get the basking temp to 32C?

Hi Hettie. I bought one of those little EXO TERRA Thermo Meters and placed it in the middle of the heat spot and came up with 30c then next morning the new 100w bulb I had bought popped after 41/2 hours use, Anyway I went back and got a replacement and now the temperature reads 50c+ ??????, The end of the spot is 12 inches away from the Meter but I cannot raise the spot lamp no more. Got to sort that. How do you get the temperature so accurately? Soil was one of those mixes bought for tortoises from the pets hop, thrown the bag now.

QUOTE ("Ozric")
A lovely looking tortoise which also has an unusual shape to his vertebral scutes.

Hi Ozric and thanks for the comment and reply. I thought about those whilst looking at tortoise images on-line and wondered why Shelly was different, kinda like them myself (Makes her more identifiable if the need should ever arise I guess). Thanks for the tip on Plantains. Got them added to her diet this morning.

I would love to let her hibernate as she should but under the circumstances we'll wait until next year.

QUOTE ("miller07")
Your setup sounds fab, maybe you could add some pics of this when you get a chance

Hello miller. Thanks for the comment and reply. Basic set-up for the moment will add to it as we go. Thanks for the links.

QUOTE ("Freddy McGavin")
I wish you many happy years with Shelly and I hope you enjoy your time here on the forum. I'm sure there will be more, helpful advice along soon. Best of luck

Thanks for the kind words Freddy and I do take on board what you said about hibernation, weight etc.

QUOTE ("brucefairweather")
.dont you just hate it when some one changes their mind!!!

LOL. Thanks for taking the time to reply Bruce. I was up last night browsing and reading about id on boettgeri v hercegovinenesis and was reading about the scutes where the legs are also the scutes on the plastron forming a V on the boettgeri and U on the hercegovinenesis.

I thought the plastron scutes looked like a V on Shelly, Like I say I am new to all this and trying to learn, so please don't think I am trying to pretend I know to much.

Also I read this after reading the paper work for Shelly and the country of origin was Macedonia:

click here for link to wikipedia.org

"The eastern population (boettgeri) Serbia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, and Greece. While hercegovinensis populates coasts of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia and Montenegro."

Anyway got the female but could she be Testudo hermanni boettgeri???????.

More comments on sub species please anyone


Thanks again all for the reply's, I do appreciate the help.

Henry

#11 Guest_brucefairweather_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:20 PM

hi i will put some pics of mine up to show you,

theese are all thherc

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#12 Guest_HenryV111_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:50 PM

Thanks Bruce,

Getting me all confused now trying to get a deff on Shelly's subspecies ID.

Been new would love to have a guess on the SEX's of your's though.

Right: Male
Middle: Female unsure.gif
Left: Female
Bottom: Male ( By thickness of it's tail unsure.gif )







#13 Guest_brucefairweather_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:51 PM

here is most of the boettgri

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#14 Guest_brucefairweather_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:53 PM

QUOTE (HenryV111 @ Nov 10 2010, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Bruce,

Getting me all confused now trying to get a deff on Shelly's subspecies ID.

Been new would love to have a guess on the SEX's of your's though.

Right: Male
Middle: Female unsure.gif
Left: Female
Bottom: Male ( By thickness of it's tail unsure.gif )

yes you are spot on with the sex's

#15 Guest_HenryV111_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:05 PM

MMM,

I really am stuck LOL, very similar indeed.

The boettgri image on the right is that a different species or is it just me ( I know it's me LOL)



#16 Guest_brucefairweather_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:11 PM

pritty sure they are all boettgri!!!!

#17 Guest_HenryV111_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:36 PM

It will be me, I am trying to get the angle of the image in my head.

Wow you got a few then! Good on ya.

Thanks again Bruce

#18 Guest_Ozric_*

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 11:17 PM

It's worth saying that all hermann tortoises vary greatly in colour, pattern, size and shape. This can make it difficult to make an accurate ID. Although we recognise several subspecies of hermann at the moment, this has changed in the past and I think it will change again in the future. Of course the tortoises themsleves havn't changed at all.

Sometimes we get tortoises which for some unknown reason don't have one or more of the defining characteristics. Also there are some tortoises around which are the result of breeding between sub species and those tortoises have features of more than one subspecies. I'm not personally in favour of this but the animals are quite healthy and just as great to keep.


#19 Guest_HenryV111_*

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 07:59 AM

QUOTE ("Ozric")
It's worth saying that all hermann tortoises vary greatly in colour, pattern, size and shape. This can make it difficult to make an accurate ID

To right!
Thanks Ozric

Well after a visit else where for more information, lets say it is a Testudo Hermanni Hercegovinensis. I do hope no offence is taken people, but I have to be sure as I am thinking about getting another female of the same species then one day (year) if me and the Mrs gain more experience with tortoise maybe a male then have a go at breeding. Another female maybe for the time been.

Henry





#20 Guest_Ozric_*

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 08:09 PM

Hi Henry

I don't think anyone here will be offended about you going elsewhere for an ID. We don't specialise in ID of the different Hermanns. I know that other place you mention.....

Good luck with tort no 2!





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