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#1 Guest_littledeedee_*

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:56 PM

I know I joke about Alfie and his antics but am seriously concerned now.

He has been trying to break out all day, can see how wound he he was becoming and so I turned his lamp off. 5mins later, i hear him scratching around and then a big thud.

went running over and lucky i did as he was on his back in his water. If i wasnt so quick, he would have drowned as there is no way he would be able to get himself upright and his head was submergered. a couple of minutes and he would definatly would have been a gonner.

i dont know what to do.. i cant spent all day watching him, its not possible. its going to have to be a case of he cant have enuff water to bath in and so a little bowl and take a risk of him tipping it over. he baths daily and so going to have to run the risk of him being thirsty IF he does spill over the bowl as I cant risk him drowning.

Ive never known a tortoise to be such a problem sad.gif

Im so shaken up mellow.gif

#2 Guest_emmawantsatortoise_*

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 08:18 PM

hi

my torts used to do that all the time and it worried me sick, i have seen suggestions of putting pebbles or those glass marble things in the water so they can get a drink but not drown

i changed my dish for a terracota plant pot saucer, i bathe them everyday so they get their bath, they have turned over in the dish but its not deep enough to have their heads underwater

hope this helps some

#3 Guest_MrsG_*

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 08:23 PM

Oh dear. Poor Alfie sad.gif and poor you.

Could you take his water dish out when you are not there and only let him have it when you can keep an eye on him?

Shelby is climbing less but it is definitely still her favourite thing to do. My husband found her upside down under her log hide yesterday - she must have tried climbing up it the wrong way?? If that is possible?

I have put strips of wood along both the edges to make a kind of roof and dug trenches (e.g. 45degrees) around the edge of the table so that if she tries to climb up the walls and topples over she is always at a angle so can slide sidways - so far it has worked wonders. Also put some pebbles along the trench to help her find things to turn herself over.

Hopefully someone else will have some more ideas to help.

Jo & Shelby x

#4 Guest_miller07_*

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 08:45 PM

QUOTE (littledeedee @ Nov 14 2010, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know I joke about Alfie and his antics but am seriously concerned now.

He has been trying to break out all day, can see how wound he he was becoming and so I turned his lamp off. 5mins later, i hear him scratching around and then a big thud.

went running over and lucky i did as he was on his back in his water. If i wasnt so quick, he would have drowned as there is no way he would be able to get himself upright and his head was submergered. a couple of minutes and he would definatly would have been a gonner.

i dont know what to do.. i cant spent all day watching him, its not possible. its going to have to be a case of he cant have enuff water to bath in and so a little bowl and take a risk of him tipping it over. he baths daily and so going to have to run the risk of him being thirsty IF he does spill over the bowl as I cant risk him drowning.

Ive never known a tortoise to be such a problem sad.gif

Im so shaken up mellow.gif


Sorry to hear your still having trouble with Alfie huh.gif I can't really think of anything other than what already been said.
I also do as Emma does I bathe them in the morning and have a terrecota plastic plant dish filled with pebbles. There's plenty of space between the pebbles for them to dip their heads in for a wee drink but not enough empty space that they would drown if they ended up on their backs in there mellow.gif
Hope you find a salution soon x

#5 Guest_littledeedee_*

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 09:49 PM

sad.gif

hes going to just have a small pot of water as he cant he trusted. I cant be watching him all the time when home as it would only take a minute and he would drown. when hes on his back he has no chance of getting upright because he is so flat, thats the problem... even if he isnt in his water, its still a concern really because of the lamp.

There is nothing I can do about him climbing as he cant reach the top now so is just scratching at the walls now. He has more cuts now too, no nails or anything so must be from his bark.

maybe some mittens would do the trick!



#6 Guest_miller07_*

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (littledeedee @ Nov 14 2010, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sad.gif

hes going to just have a small pot of water as he cant he trusted. I cant be watching him all the time when home as it would only take a minute and he would drown. when hes on his back he has no chance of getting upright because he is so flat, thats the problem... even if he isnt in his water, its still a concern really because of the lamp.

There is nothing I can do about him climbing as he cant reach the top now so is just scratching at the walls now. He has more cuts now too, no nails or anything so must be from his bark.

maybe some mittens would do the trick!


It must be getting you down now Di......
I suppose there's not a lot you can do about the climbing other than hope he calms down.
I'd remove the bark if you think that's whats doing him harm sad.gif x

#7 Guest_Freddy McGavin_*

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 10:11 PM

Hi Dee,
Sorry to hear about the problems you're having with Alfie. Maybe some improvements to his enclosure would help things. If the bark is causing a problem then I would just use topsoil. A flatter water tray may also help. I don't envy you Dee as it is certainly not easy to keep a 7 year old tortoise indoors over winter. Sorry, I can't be of any real help. I'm sure there will be others along soon to offer more, helpful advice. Best of luck wink.gif
Kind Regards
Freddy biggrin.gif

#8 Guest_Dawn_*

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 10:21 PM

Hi,

If you're bathing Alfie regulary then you really don't need to have a water bowl in there as well. Also one of my hatchlings nearly drowned - my hubby came home to find her upside down in her water bowl, we don't know how long she'd been there but could've been anything up to 4 hours. For me though, I found the pebbles hindered her, cos her shell got caught underneath the pebbles so they actually trapped her sad.gif

My advice would be to take the bowl out, move out anything that he can climb up/against, and bank the sides up a little bit with the soil, so they are slightly angled. Hopefully Alfie will settle for you soon... good luck xx

#9 Guest_Ozric_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:00 AM

Hi. A small water dish can work well. I don't use anything that is big and deep enough to drown in. Its true that a small bowl might get full of substrate and then there isn't any water available but this is a smaller risk than a large bowl.

Tortoises are messy creatures by nature. Its normal for them to trample on their food, pee on it and not even care the tiniest bit.

A smal water bowl which is far too little for the tortoise to get into can work well. I have one like this and it is buried in the substrate with the water then sitting at the same level as the substrate. The worst that can happen is the bowl getting full of substrate.

I'm personally not keen on bark as a substrate unless you are using aspen. Once your bark gets wet it it will get moldy and grow spores on it.

#10 Guest_Lin_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:34 AM

I agree with Dawn. As he's a problem being so flat, I don't think it's essential to have water in there, especially as he can drink when having a bath. The food I give them is always wet from being washed and as they eat it so quickly, doesn't have time to dry, so they get water. Incidentally, I have only ever seen Bentley take a sip of water about 6 times and Victor, never.

#11 Guest_cyberangel_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:19 AM

I always use shallow water dishes in my enclosures, tortoises need to be able to drink/bathe when they need too. I also bathe my torts every day, but they still use the water dish too. I always put some not too small or not to large pebbles in the dish, so if they do turn over in it (which they do) they can turn themselves back over, as they have something to push against. And they dont get their heads under the water.
If they did get thier heads under the water for a longish time, dont panic as they would go into a hibernation mode. Tortoises have recovered from the bottom of ponds after being their for a day. Obvioulsy your tortoise wouldnt do this, as the dish is/should be shallow.
But it is a scary thing. If any of my hatchlings or adults do turn over I just put them in water:0) so if they have dehydrated any, this would help.

#12 Guest_littledeedee_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:28 AM

Thanks guys

Dawn how awful!!!
I paniced knowing his was in there seconds let alone not knowing how long she had been in there. unsure.gif I bath him for about 20mins a day now and so there should be no reason at all for him to go without water.

The pebble idea really WOULDNT work, as you have pointed out Lin, he is so flat that pebbles wont work and just 2inches of water would be enuff to submerb his head when hes on his back.

there is absolutley nothing at the sides or in corners to help him climb. there WAS a ledge that he could reach but even that has been sorted and so he has flat walls... that dont stop him standing on his back legs scratching and then he topples over. its higher bambo now and I think this is what he is scrapping his neck on and cutting himself.

I think an idea will be to dig out a trench around the sides... i like this one!! will give it a go wub.gif

Hi Johnathan... I use Topsoil, the bark is for him to climb over (more of a fat tree branch really)

I cant beleive how much stress and trouble a 6inch little tort would bring!! blink.gif

cheers Guys
D
x

#13 Guest_littledeedee_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:00 PM

QUOTE (cyberangel @ Nov 15 2010, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I always use shallow water dishes in my enclosures, tortoises need to be able to drink/bathe when they need too. I also bathe my torts every day, but they still use the water dish too. I always put some not too small or not to large pebbles in the dish, so if they do turn over in it (which they do) they can turn themselves back over, as they have something to push against. And they dont get their heads under the water.
If they did get thier heads under the water for a longish time, dont panic as they would go into a hibernation mode. Tortoises have recovered from the bottom of ponds after being their for a day. Obvioulsy your tortoise wouldnt do this, as the dish is/should be shallow.
But it is a scary thing. If any of my hatchlings or adults do turn over I just put them in water:0) so if they have dehydrated any, this would help.



Really Sandy? they can do that... well thats a big weight off my mind!!
I still think he wouldnt be able to get himself upright, he flopped over earlier on soil and 12mins later he was still there. (thought id monitor him to see if he could) and i had to pick him up. But at least i feel assured that he wouldnt drown if head submerged for a while. Oh and yet another graze on his head for his toubles as he skirffed it on a pebble when he was fidgetting to upright himself.

As i have your attention Sandy, is it a sign that he isnt happy constantly climbing or trying to climb walls? I hate the thought of him not being happy and hes been in there a month now and getting worse, its as if he is winding himself up now.

unsure.gif

D
x

#14 Guest_cyberangel_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 03:50 PM


As i have your attention Sandy, is it a sign that he isnt happy constantly climbing or trying to climb walls? I hate the thought of him not being happy and hes been in there a month now and getting worse, its as if he is winding himself up now.
D
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[/quote]

Constant climbing is usually a sign of being too hot:0) Maybe where ever you got him from, kept him at lower temps. Some tortoises find it hard to ajust.
Maybe you could put the lamp a little higher, to see if that makes any difference.
What are the temps under the light?

#15 Guest_littledeedee_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 05:10 PM

QUOTE (cyberangel @ Nov 15 2010, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As i have your attention Sandy, is it a sign that he isnt happy constantly climbing or trying to climb walls? I hate the thought of him not being happy and hes been in there a month now and getting worse, its as if he is winding himself up now.
D
x


Constant climbing is usually a sign of being too hot:0) Maybe where ever you got him from, kept him at lower temps. Some tortoises find it hard to ajust.
Maybe you could put the lamp a little higher, to see if that makes any difference.
What are the temps under the light?



I have a 2in one bulb that has a basking heat of about 32deg.
the other end of his table is 23 deg.

#16 Guest_MrsG_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE (cyberangel @ Nov 15 2010, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As i have your attention Sandy, is it a sign that he isnt happy constantly climbing or trying to climb walls? I hate the thought of him not being happy and hes been in there a month now and getting worse, its as if he is winding himself up now.
D
x


Constant climbing is usually a sign of being too hot:0) Maybe where ever you got him from, kept him at lower temps. Some tortoises find it hard to ajust.
Maybe you could put the lamp a little higher, to see if that makes any difference.
What are the temps under the light?



Shelby's previous home was much cooler and the breeder said to me it might take her a while to adjust to a warmer house and while she was she would be much more active.

As Alfie was roaming free (is this right Dee?) before he was in his table it would have been much cooler wouldn't it?


#17 Guest_littledeedee_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:43 PM

QUOTE (MrsG @ Nov 15 2010, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Shelby's previous home was much cooler and the breeder said to me it might take her a while to adjust to a warmer house and while she was she would be much more active.

As Alfie was roaming free (is this right Dee?) before he was in his table it would have been much cooler wouldn't it?



Thats right Mrs G.... so maybe he will need more time to adjust.
in saying that he is currently basking nicely at 33deg... neck out as far as it can go and eyes shut.... will have to tip toe pass, as not to wake him and start him off scratching AGAIN!
unsure.gif

D
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