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overwintering babie torts & hibernating


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#21 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 08:41 AM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-09-05 AT 08:58 AM (GMT)]As I probably post more than most, along with Arnie, I assume Jill is refering to me. I persist with my opinion regarding vivs as I have taken the time to research tortoise husbandry in depth, with the help of the TT of course. I thought the whole point of this Forum was to point people in the right direction? Torts need to be kept in very specific environments, depending on their species, in order for them to live a full and healthy life. Before tort husbandry advanced as far as it has now, we managed to kill 55 million torts in this country, Im not exaggerating either. Poor advice and husbandry affects torts more than other domestic animal.........usually with fatal consequences. Are you saying Jill, that you would prefer me not to give out advice? Giving your opinion on what you do is one thing, advising others to follow your lead is another, especially if those methods are known to cause harm to a tort.
A tort is never too young to hibernate, no one keeps them awake in the wild
I never expect anyone on this site to take my word, or Arnies as gospel, we continually give out links for the TT and various tort forums to guide people in the right direction, if you dont want my advice or help you dont have to take it, but I wont apologise for having the best interests of everyones tort at the forefront of any advice I give out. Neither do I think either of us deserve to be critised for it.

#22 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 01:19 PM

Hello David
WE could argue the point about vivariums till the cows come home

http://www.tortoiset...es/vivarium.htm

This is based on research and hopefully it will back up what Joanne and myself are trying to stress to all, that Vivariums are not suitable for Med Tortoise
Arnie

#23 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 01:51 PM

well i think everyone gives brilliant advice on this site,(except when they are been nasty) but we all have our own ways of dealing with our tortoises. I believe vivariums are ok but they have to have a cold spot and a hot spot and i would take the glass doors off.

I also believe that tortoises should be allowed to hibernate it is natural. I have had a russian tortoises for 3 months now and he is fit and healthy. but because he has not been hibernated before and i dont know anything about his past i am only going to hibernate him for 6 weeks. i will be weighing him through hibernation to make sure he does not lose to much body fat, if so i will take him out of hibernation.

I also have a adult female greek tortoise, for the 1st 5 years of her life i have not hibernated her because i was not told to. the past two years she has been hibernated in a fridge and she has been fine, she is so active she is a different tortoises. so i really recommend hibernation so long as your tortoise is healthy and fit.

#24 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 04:39 PM

Good for you Sarah
A viv is fine with the doors off the air can circulate and if anyone as already got one and can't afford to start again this is what I would advise them to do.
I'm glad your hibernating your little Russian, as you have a fridge if he's not lost any weight after 6 weeks can I suggest you leave him longer, he has to go through a lot just for 6 weeks the minimum I would say is 8 weeks, but like you say, if there are any problems then get him up

Arnie

#25 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 04:55 PM

ok thanks i will try him for 8 weeks. For anybody else who is thinking not to hibernate your tortoise think again. It is the best thing for them just keep an eye on them. My tortoise thrives of it.

I think most people dont want to hibernate there tortoise because they will miss it. Im not sure if im correct but i herd that tortoises live much longer when they hibernate so you can enjoy lots of years with your tortoise.

#26 Guest_Radicaldave_*

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 10:09 PM

as with any living thing it grows stronger and more hardy every year i have never hibernated a tort younger than 2 and at 3 start off by doing it short and slowly increase the time every year, It is very important to hibernate i agree as it is critical for the gut to clear itself out after all the main diet is weeds what do you expect.. but im sure they are not going to mind 2 out of 80+ years, although i must admit im thinking of breaking my tradition this year because i live in a very cold flat with no central heating so i think it might be best to let them wind down and sleep for a few weeks.. im going to have a digital camera soon so i will get some pics of my indoor enclose up soon please understand i dont endorse the use of Viv's it has been heavily modified but acts as a warm shelter or hide if the torts decide to go in, I have not removed both glass doors because it acts as a gateway i am able to shut them inside the (Modified) Viv if i need the floor space or need to clean the enclosure..

#27 Guest_jill 1_*

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 11:24 PM

This is a brilliant site as I always say; but Joanne, you must not claim full knowledge of husbandry as I remember your earlier postings where you often requested Honey's advice. My problem is with the adamance of replies when we are all, after all looking for the best advice in caring for these beautiful creatures that we have taken to our hearts. It can cause so much worry when someone states that you are not doing things correctly even when you are doing your very best for your tort; more so when there is so much conflicting advice.

#28 Guest_nikki_*

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 09:21 AM

i suggest that people who are having problems with conflicting advice join tortoisetrust discussion group.This is the biggest organisation in the world for chelonian care and as it is based on the tortoises lives in the wild and not just the pet shop rubbish you get which is based mainly on out of date books,other pet shop advice and ways to make more money for the shop then it all becomes clear which advice is going to help most.as always use common sense and if it is as near as possible to what they would get as nature intended then go for it.If it has glass sides, comes out of a can, can only be found in supermarkets or supplies heat from beneath then think again.Tortoises are obviously not going to live long if we try to change the way nature has been doing it for millions of years, just like dogs and cats on commercial diets have more problems than farm animals which catch live prey and are fed on raw diets .common sense rules OK :D

#29 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 11:18 AM

nikki, you state 'if can only be found in supermarkets' we should think again.

well i have read the tortoise trust artical about feeding red foots and yellow foots they state 'We now give about 25g of moist cat low-fat cat food to a full grown (9 kg) tortoise on a weekly basis'.

When i first joined this group i said i did this and i got really critised.

Cat food can be found in supermarkets? its not natural.
So your advice is really confusing. Have you read the tortoise trust web site????????

http://www.tortoiset...g_redfoots.html

#30 Guest_nikki_*

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 01:00 PM

You are talking redfoots there Sarah. I think this is a hermanns site and I was referring to hermmans feeding. Of course I have read the tortoise trust info and their course work, but to read up on every species in detail would take for ever so only the species I own are studied in depth by me personally. I think they do state that you should never mix species and subspecies too though. Arent redfoots and yellow foots different. Only asking here, not stating as I do not know.

#31 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 01:09 PM

they are the same species, just some from different parts of the rain forest, they are fine going togther. if they have babies i will have orange foots lol
yes it is a hermanns site, but when asked what tortoises i had i stated a yellow foot and people wanted to know how i housed them and how i fed them.
i got critised for feeding my yellow foot cat food (once every other week) when the tortoise trust said this is fine

#32 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 05:52 PM

Jill,
I do not claim full knowledge of tortoise husbandry, I merely reply to post I feel capable of giving reliable respones too, all of which are from the Tortoise Trust.

#33 Guest_Radicaldave_*

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 10:59 PM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 26-09-05 AT 11:08 PM (GMT)]the tortoise trust is very good, but its not the bible. Sometimes its best to take information from MORE than one source,

oh and by the way quote "just like dogs and cats on commercial diets have more problems than farm animals which catch live prey and are fed on raw diets"

--> When was the last time you went to the farm ? I have not seen any cows hunting down thomson gazelle's and going for the throat and then sharing the kill with the rest of the cud chewing pride ?

#34 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 04:32 PM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-09-05 AT 04:34 PM (GMT)]It might not be your bible, but its mine. I have read thousands and thousands of article on tortoise husbandry from many, many different sources, including those written from observing torts in the wild, so please dont be so quick to judge that I've 'only' got their version. You may not feel the need to listen to their advice, but theres no need to critise me for it, I was merely stating where my advice stems from.

#35 Guest_nikki_*

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 08:39 PM

I think you will see that the reference to farm animals was regarding cats and dogs Mr Radical!!




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