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Poor Dead hermann


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#1 Guest_tarquin_*

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:37 PM

Hi there,
I can see from this site I made a big mistake.My son wanted for his birthday a tortoise and had been visiting a shop with his mother for some time.His Birthday was in late July. We made the mistake after visiting the net and went along to Wilton Pets in Basildon Essex. They claim on the net to be a Tortoise centre.We bought 2 hermann's 2yr old (female). Again not a good idea but we have had to use a vivarium as we live in a flat for the time being. The viverium is set up ok with a day lamp a shade shelter and a heat lamp at one end and a thermostat.When we got them home there seemed a marked difference between the 2 of them, one being very lively eating and drinking well the other no real intrest in food or water. A warm bath seemed to liven her up for a while and a recent "play" in a relatives garden seemed to help.Today being 2 days later she seems to have died.She showed no obvious signs of a problem I suppose she could have dehydrated.She seems cool possibly cold.It might sound stupid but how do you tell? I would think the vivarium was of a high enough temp, 70deg during the night and 80deg during the day to stop her hibernating.I will take her back to the shop tomorrow. Just wondering what your thoughts are on my legal position when I return with her.We have only had her 4 weeks my son is deverstated.

Cheers

Tarquin

#2 Guest_ajs123_*

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 06:00 PM

vivariums are NOT for tortoises...they overheat, get the other tortoise OUT of that vivarium IMMEDIATELY, and put it in an open top enclosure, even and old drawer for the time being. I done the same,put my tortoise in a vivarium, and my tortoise lasted 6 weeks, I bought another one and so far he's lasted 9 months in an open top enclosure.

#3 Guest_tarquin_*

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 06:09 PM

Will do ajs123

#4 Guest_nina_*

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 07:06 PM

Hi

I'm so sad to hear of your loss - it must be so horrible. Now you must ensure that your other tort is well looked after which means that you should get him/her out of the viv. While you live in a flat you must make sure that the tort gets enough UVB/UVA, meaning you must install some good lamps in the torts new enclosure. Also, D3 and calcium are very important dietary supplements. You could also take your tort to the vet (one that specialises in tortoises) and get him to check it for worms! If it was bought in a shop it almost certainly has worms.
Go to the Tortoise Trust's website to read more about Hermanns - they know what they are talking about! The right diet is very important, or the tort will die.

Once again, I'm so sorry about your poor tort - are you absolutely sure it's dead? Have you tried a lukewarm bath?

Best wishes for a happier tortie-future

Nina

#5 Guest_tarquin_*

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 07:22 PM

Thanks nina
The viv that they lived in is large about 4ft by 2ft and it has lots of vent grill space at the rear also the front is left"ajar" so air can flow freely. It had the correct UBV/UVA lamps thermostatically controlled. Remember me saying we had 2 and from the onset the remaining one is very lively. I am of the opinion that the one that died was poorly when purchased.The two of them had regular warm baths
and yes I have tried a warm bath but there is no sign of life.Its body functions before it died seemed ok the same as the remaining one in fact. They have been fed on rocket salad leaves which are a variety of leaf's sprinkled with a pinch of calcium.I just wonder what will be the out come when I return to the shop tomorrow. All the rearing during the past 4 weeks has been as per their instruction to the T

David

#6 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:14 PM

Hello Stephen
I'm really sorry about your tortoise.
Wiltons has quite a reputation and I am not sure on your legal rites.
You may get your money back or they may offer you another tortoise or they could say hard luck.
Go to this site and download the booklet that is there for rearing med torts in the UK
http://www.tortoises.net
I do hope the other one fairs better, but be prepared and take a sample of his/her feaces for tests to the vets
If your not far from Wiltons I think I may know someone knows a good vet with tortoises in that area.
Once again sorry.
Arnie

#7 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:23 PM

Hello Stephen,

Im so sorry you lost your tort :-( I know how it feels, my first pet shop tort lasted 3 weeks.
Please go to the site that Arnie has given you, it will help enourmously......also a faecal sample for the remaining tort is important, worm impactations can be serious.
Good luck

#8 Guest_tarquin_*

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 09:51 PM

Thanks Jo and arnie

I had been to the site and downloaded the really useful guide before I bought them.I live in east london near the A13 It would be great if you could recommend a vet. Wiltons is only about 40mins away so a vet nearby them would be fine.What reputation do wiltons have? Am I likely to get problems tomorrow? The remaining tort's faecal looks normal as did the dead one what am I looking for?

Thanks again everybody
P.S not sure where stephen came from my name is David

#9 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 07:56 AM

Sorry David, we'll get your name right.:-)
Wiltons has a terrible reputation, probably one of the worst in the UK for torts. Personally I would press for a full refund, you might not get it but make a fuss. Pass the word around to avoid Wiltons like the plague, make sure everyone knows their crap. Get in touch with your local rspca, tell them your experience. Its your choice how much fuss you make of course, I made a big one when my first tort died and was asked to leave the shop, you often find the owners dont like when you complain :-(
Let us know how you get on........how is your other one today?

#10 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 04:34 PM

Hello David
Stephen came from your Profile Stephen Palmer:-)

Anyway try this link and see if any of these vets are near you,
Is it Essex??

http://groups.yahoo......reat Britain/

Arnie

#11 Guest_tarquin_*

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 06:22 PM

Hi Jo and arnie,
I didnt get to read your mail before I left this morning.I'm not sure its good news or bad news now.I took the dead tort back to the shop with my son and got him to carry it in one of those vented boxes with a carry handle. He was sad but I told him to look even sadder for the sympathy vote.So I told the story to the tort "specialist" he took her outside and inspected her and came back puzzled as to her demise as she looked perfect but dead.This is where I'm not so sure if it's good or bad but we got a replacement Mrs Hermann who seems lively enough. I had to bowe to pressure from my son who was worried the other one would die of lonleness and he put pressure on that he was the only child etc.We are keeping them apart until we take them both to the vets for a once over and maybe de-worming.Arnie i cant get your link to work without registering, did you have a specific vet in essex in mind when you suggested it. i can travel through essex and kent. Cheers for all your support. Jo how long ago did you have the argument with wiltons?

David

#12 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 08:38 PM

It wasnt Wiltons I had the argument with, it was a local pet shop, but many, many customers have taken dead pets back there :-(

#13 Guest_tarquin_*

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 09:03 PM

Sorry Jo just checked your profile would have been a long journey from where you live.
David

#14 Guest_katiew7103_*

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 10:41 PM

I too in my ignorance bought a tort from wiltons. After a major learning curve my tort now lives outside with a covered area with associated lamps for basking, he has the run of the garden and seems to be thriving. The Tort specialist there gave me all his specialist rubbish,I cringe every time I go past the place. My tort gave no evidence of worms but following on from advice given on this site I wormed him with panacur liquid and low and behold 2 weeks later he passed the worms. I know of a specialist reptile vet in harold hill can't remember he's name but the phone no is 01708 384444. I've never been there but I got he's name froma reputable site. Be warned though vets bills can be expensive. Good luck with your torts and I'm really sorry about the other one.
Katie

#15 Guest_simountain1_*

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:36 AM

My tort georgie came fom an online breeder or so they said??
Buyatortoise.info
on the certificate it said that it came from wilton pet centre. The name of the company was crossed through with marker pen but you could still see the printed text below.
I must have been lucky as georgie is in good health now eating fine after a costly visit to the vets for worming.
They are scum how can they treat animals like they do??

#16 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:13 PM

A very simple reason unfortunately............money, and the more they make the better :-(

#17 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 03:31 PM

Hello David
Trouble is little tortoise look so appealing in the shops, people impulse buy, it happens time and again that's one of the reasons Joanne and myself keep helping people on this group. If people would do just a little research on the internet, they would then, more than likely, stumble on a good honest breeder and the majority of the times, the tortoise are much cheaper, you are given lots of help and advice and all round the cost is much less,
We can point all the pitfalls out, what it takes to look after them properly and so the vets bills are kept to a minimum.
It wouldn't enter my head to sell a poorly tortoise to anyone, so if you hear of someone wanting a tortoise, or any one that reads this mail, tell them to research first, so they no what they are doing and hopefully if they decide to get a tortoise they will get an healthy one.
Enough on my pedestal :-)
Hopefully by tonight David I will have the name of a good reptile vet near you
Arnie

#18 Guest_simon_*

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 07:18 PM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-08-05 AT 07:19 PM (GMT)]keep well clear of the "specialist" in Harold hill! Very pricey, very off hand and wouldn't go there again. Nuff said

#19 Guest_tarquin_*

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 07:55 PM

Hi Everyone, list to long to mention,
Well it seems new Mrs Hermann is eating and drinking well just like the other one.hopefully in good helth. Thinking back to my trip back to wilton's, taking a look in the multi-viv's they keep their various species of tort's in,there seemed to be very little food in their bowls, the odd leaf or 2 which seemed old and scraggy. Made me think I was over feeding mine.Another strange thing,when he checked the dead one over and agreed to replace it, we discovered he only had 2 males left but said could I wait on for about 10mins as one of the workers only lived down the road and would get some more femles.Off he went and 10mins later returned with a washing up bowl with I think 5 females in it and some straw, some had bits of food still clinging to them.One of them had a distinctive mark on its shell hard to tell if it was damage or a kind off blemish.He had with him certificates for them.My son chose the livleyist one , and I was kinda happy there wasn't an argument about replacing it.There must be a fair bit of profit in it as they didn't fuss about it. If I had to shell (excuse the pun)out/lose 145 because a tort died in 4 weeks I might have been reluctant to replace it.Will wait for arnie's vet info hopefully tonight.Anyone know say a ballpark figure for a vet visit for a check over and de-worming. You are all scaring me about the cost, do I need a second mortgage?

David

#20 Guest_katiew7103_*

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 09:16 PM

When I rang up, on the number I gave you in a previous message, I was told 25.00 for the initial consultation with about another 15.00 for them to administer the worming med. Daylight robbery if you ask me. I gave my own in the end but it really wasn't easy, also the med needs to be given more than once.
Katie




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