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Homeopathic treatments for tortoises


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#1 Guest_simon_*

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 06:52 PM

Hi, talking of worms etc I have found a website called www.doghealth.co.uk which sells homeopathic products to deal with worms. I have emailed them and asked if it was safe to give to tortoises and they said yes. It's called "Four Seasons" and it's a natural preperation from the Folklore company. They say it helps with the "natural explusion of worms and creates a hostile gut environment". I use it for my dogs and cats and have found it very good. Click on this link to read more about it, http://www.doghealth...uk/fourseas.htm it has to be given on two consecutive days every month but you would have to contact dog health for dosage details as all tortoises weigh different amounts. What do the experts think, have they heard of this or even used homeopathic products on their tortoises, they seem to be becoming more popular.

#2 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 07:20 PM

This sounds like a really good idea and much less stressful for the tortoise. I'm going to look into this. Has anyone else given their tortoises homeopathic treatments? :(

#3 Guest_B E C K Y_*

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 07:17 PM

ye i am very interested to hear more about this - my aunt who lives beside me is a homeopath, so i could easily reccieve some from her!! kelly has not been checked out for worms as our vets is not only extremely expensive (which i no all vets r) but thy dont know anything bot tortoises!!
has anyone used this treatment? i am willing to try it, and afterall - it isnt going to harm the tortoise if it is used as it is all natural ingredients used!!
becky and kelly xxx xxx xxx

#4 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 06:53 PM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-09-05 AT 06:54 PM (GMT)]After what our tortoise went through we would never get a vet to worm our tortoises again, it was the worst mistake we ever made and if we could turn the clock back we would, I still cry my eyes out when I think about it and hope that our story will stop anyone elses tortoise becoming ill or dying. I've added our story to this thread incase anyone hasn't read it. We had two tortoises and they were both over 50 years old. During all that time our tortoises lived outside and had the run of our garden eating what they liked with some fruit treats thrown in by us, hibernated every year and were a good weight and size, very active and friendly. They had never needed to see a vet during these years and had never been wormed. Two years ago we were told that tortoises needed regular worming and so took them both to be wormed for the first time. They were hibernated as usual later that year but one didn't survive. He woke up very weak with vomiting and the vet could not save him. The vet said as with horses he may have had worms and when they died inside him may have caused problems. To this day we have hated ourselves for worming our tortoises and wish we had left well alone. How did they live a healthy life without being worming but then one died when we thought we were doing whats best for them? We have not had our tortoises wormed since. How do tortoises survive in the wild without being wormed? Isn't this just another poison we are putting into our tortoises when they seem to do well without it as our two have proved? thanks Lisa:(

#5 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 08:50 AM

Torts survive in the wild whilst carrying worms as they cover such a large area there is little chance of re-infection. In captivity they cover the same ground over and over again and pick the worms back up and hence re-infection.

#6 Guest_B E C K Y_*

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 06:04 PM

im so sorry to hear about your poor tortoise. how is the other tortoise? u said u had 2. i am so sorry for your loss. this is yet another reason why mayb homeopathy may be a good idea! is there anyoe else who has tried this treatment!? has it worked? thnku, becky and kelly x x x

#7 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 08:03 PM

The other tortoise woke up fine but to be honest we wouldn't take a chance again. How can a perfectly healthy tortoise be fine for 50 years or more without being wormed then be dead after worming. If we had to choose we wouldn't worm our tortoises again. We now have a four year old Hermanns to keep the old girl company and he was wormed before we got him but he hates the vet and we wouldn't stress him out. We're not convinced about worming now as you can imagine but it's something each person has to decide on. We just wish we could turn the clock back. :(

#8 Guest_B E C K Y_*

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 08:08 PM

ye i can totally c where ur coming from, and again, im so sorry to hear about ur story - atleast mayb others can learn from it. :-(
so, after ur terrible experience, would u not worm using homeopathy either? or would this b somthing u would consider?
and yes u r totaly rit - how can a tortoise survive in the wild without being wormed!? and how did ur 50 yr old tort live for 50 yrs!?!?
glad to hear your other tortoise is healty and well.
thnku for ur help adn sharing ur experience - all be it a bad one.
becky and kelly x x x x x
p.s wat are your two tortoises called? and is ur new arrival settling in well with your older tortoise? hope its all going well.

#9 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 05:53 PM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 14-09-05 AT 05:57 PM (GMT)]We probably would use homeopathic treatments if the tortoises were unwell due to worms but having said that our tortoises lived for a very long time without the need for human intervention and it seems ridiculous to interfere with nature when sometimes in our opinion humans can do more harm than good,you only have to look at the decline of our bird population to see that. These worming medicines the vets give aren't always given correctly it would appear and tortoises are small animals so I suppose there will always be some casualties. Humans in our opinion are very quick to administer medicines at the drop of a hat so to speak, whether it's necessary or not and looking back it was so obviously not necessary for Speedy our tortoise. Thanks for your words of kindness it really is nice to hear from other tortiose owners that understand. Our old lady as we call her is called Tiger and our four year old is called Humphrey. He's settling in great but can get on Tigers nerves from time to time, he's still learning. All the best Lisa :(

#10 Guest_nikki_*

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 01:20 PM

I just recieved this post from doghealth.co.uk


hi there

we have not trialled this product on tortoises I am afraid

thanks


Tom Ryves
doghealth

#11 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 05:51 PM

Thats OK, I'll keep looking for an alternative. It doesn't change our mind at all though, we won't be giving our tortoises strong worming medication form the vets. I'm still waiting to hear from Doghealth, just because it hasn't been trialled on tortoises doesn't mean it won't be in the future,especially now people have shown an interest in the product. How else would they be selling alternatives for dogs,cats,rabbits etc. Not all pet owners want to fill the stomachs of their animals with poisons.

#12 Guest_nikki_*

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 08:24 PM

No need to be nasty. 'People' do not want to fill theri torts with chemicals. No-one forced you to do it did they and this is probably not what killed him anyway. Off to hibernate a while :(


Thats OK, I'll keep looking for an alternative. It doesn't change our mind at all though, we won't be giving our tortoises strong worming medication form the vets. I'm still waiting to hear from Doghealth, just because it hasn't been trialled on tortoises doesn't mean it won't be in the future,especially now people have shown an interest in the product. How else would they be selling alternatives for dogs,cats,rabbits etc. Not all pet owners want to fill the stomachs of their animals with poisons.



#13 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 01:00 PM

We all feel your loss at losing your tort, but please dont assume that this is what killed him as, to be honest, its unlikely. Its very unfair to new owners to scare them like this.

#14 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 06:06 PM

You say it's unlikely but our vet says different and to be honest given the circumstances ie. the tortoise being healthy etc, it couldn't be anything else. We are saddened that you think we are "scaring" new tortoise owners, if anything we want to bring it to new owners attention, not scare them. If our story saves just one tortoise then it would have been worth it. Thats like saying don't tell children they might get cancer if they smoke cause you might scare them.

#15 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 06:12 PM

[quote]
No need to be nasty. 'People' do not want to fill theri torts with chemicals. No-one forced you to do it did they and this is probably not what killed him anyway. Off to hibernate a while :(

If you think we are being nasty then you couldn't be futher from the truth Nikki. If people having an opinion is being "nasty" then don't reply to the thread, we can't say fairer than that. No, no one forced us to have our tortoises wormed by a vet but having said that, everywhere we went and all the things we read said differently and when your faced with that, you only want to do whats best for your animal, and thats exactly what we thought we were doing except on this occassion it was the wrong choice.

#16 Guest_Calamity Jane_*

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 12:18 AM

Well I totally agree with Lisa,
Wormers can & Do cause problems.
I know this for a fact, I know horses are different to Tortoises But I have Horses & Ponies and 3 times now when i've worm one of them he has been really ill with colic and we have nearly lost him on all 3 occasions. Im not saying people shouldn't worm their animals as its up to the individual to make the desision for themselve, but In some cases they can do more harm than good as indeed in Lisa's case. But on the other hand I have other animals and they all get wormed regular.
If everyone cleaned out there enclosures on a regular basis then there is no need to worm and they cant reinfest, Its all down to proper husbandry at the end of the day.

P.S Lisa I am very sorry to hear of your loss.

Yours
Joanne
X
www.tortoises.piczo.com


:'(

#17 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 08:47 AM

I would never recommend any owner NOT worming a tort which has worms. A tort which has a worm infestion, if left untreated, can and is fatal.
There is absolutely no proof that the panacur killed this tort....how long was this animal starved for during winddown? how many warm baths did it get the make sure its gut was empty? was its bladder full? where was it hibernated? were the temps correct? did they fluctuate and rise above 10c or below 1c?
These are the things that kill torts during hibernation, not panacur

#18 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 05:37 PM

I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to differ on this occasion.

#19 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 08:30 AM

Everyone has their own opinion, I agree, but I feel its unfair to scare new owners into thinking panacur is lethal, which it isnt. If a dog or cat had worms, the owner wouldnt leave it untreated.

#20 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 08:41 AM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-09-05 AT 08:42 AM (GMT)]Panacur is a chemical isn't it? And it's lethal to worms is it not? Why should all tortoises be able to tolerate it? All chemicals are poisonous to a certain degree. Humans can't take some medicines etc so it's no different for tortoises/animals. Read Calamity Janes story above about her horses, if that doesn't tell owners anything then nothing will.




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