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Baby Torts have shut down in a well heated table


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#1 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 09:59 PM

Well, it seems that there is a bit of a struggle going on amoungst some well meaning and knowledgable persons on this site! Good, debate is good as long as its not abusive and people respect other opinions. Keep posting your opinions and pass the knowledge on.

Well my question. I have 5 x 1 year old Hermann's who live in a 9 x 3ft table which is made up of 7 different substrates in seed trays. Until last saturday all was fine until 2 started to slow down and sleep everywhere I put them, Even in there water bowl! This morning I found a poop infested with worms so have booked a worming session at the vets. Do worms in 100g tortoise cause this sort of behaviour? Please note I am not up for hibernation so they have a 35 degree basking area going down to 75 deg at the other end which they rarely visit unless looking for food and a 4 ft 7uvb lamp across the whole enclosure.

#2 Guest_Gwen_*

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 01:15 PM

I would say that yes worms can cause this kind of behaviour as it did in my tortoise.
Gwen

#3 Guest_grahame_*

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 08:57 AM

Hi
i would also suggest that you take all 5 torts to the vet (along with their stools) as you can bet that if one has worms they all have, especially in such a small area. do your torts have anywhere to hide, or is that what the towel is for ?
You say that your not up for hibernation, is that because you don't have the facilities or because of the worms ?

regards grahame:)

#4 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:17 AM

Thanks for all the help especially the PM replies.

Torts have been to the vets and been wormed, In fact they gave me a lesson in what to do and let me do 3 of them, they need a repeat in 3 weeks. I had put the stool in a clear plastic food bag which when I looked at a day later was unbelievable! The amount of worms was incredable! unfortunatly I was unable to take a photo. The vets then analysed the stool for any other parasites before choosing the course of action.

The Tort table is fairly tempory as a much larger table is under construction in the garage. The towled area is for sleeping in as I put 2 more on in the evening once they have settled down. As for hides I use smallish ceramic plant pots (Easy to clean).

Hibernation, I will be over wintering them until they in there 3rd Year.

Regards

#5 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:24 AM

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 30-09-05 AT 10:26 AM (GMT)]Hello Mike
Can I ask why you won't be hibernating them next Winter, I can understand why your not this Winter, but by next year they should be fine to hibernate, for health reasons it's better they shut down for a couple of months. In the wild they would do this, from just a few months old
Mike can I ask you to take a photo of the under neath of the tortoise where there are 3 the one nearest the bottom, Hope you can understand this :-)
Arnie

#6 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:57 AM

Hi,
You will need to be strict with your hygiene whilst your torts are being wormed or reinfestation might occur. The substrates/towels need changing on a daily basis.
Sorry but Im a bit confused with your temps, you say the hot side is 35 degrees going down to 75 at the cool end, not sure if this is a typing error or your giving C and F.
I agree they shouldnt be hibernated this year, getting rid of the worms is the priority, but if they are fit and well next year theres no reason not to hibernate them, in fact they'll be ready for their long sleep by then :-).......and you have all year to prepare yourself.
Hope this helps

#7 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 11:17 AM

Hi Joanne666,

Thanks for the help and reply. I will be clearing all substrates this weekend and will step up the hygiene including changing the towels as you suggested.

Err Yes temp, I tried to confuse you with C and F but you have cought me out. Its 35c at the basking area down to 23c at the far end. I also use pots for hiding but these were out of the table at the time of the picture.

I will read and learn about hibernation and take advice over the next year. This year I will deffinately over winter due to the worming problem.

#8 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 11:19 AM

Hi Arnie,

Hibernation, please see my reply above.

Will post the picture tonight.

Mike

#9 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 08:14 PM

Hi Arnie,

Picture of Dougal as requested.

Mike

#10 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 02:50 PM

Hi Mike
Her carapace looked like a different species, but I can see she is a lovely little female Hermann, If I'm not mistaken, which it is early to tell, but I would be thinking of another name
Arnie

#11 Guest_nikki_*

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 12:23 AM

Agreed this looks like two seperate species here :)
Nikki

#12 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 08:26 AM

Best of luck with the worming Mike.........might be a good idea to bath them 2 or 3 times a day, torts like to go to the toilet in the bath, it might help reduce the amount inside the terranium.
Poor things must be feeling a bit miserable at the moment, but at least they are coming out which is the most important.

#13 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 09:42 AM

Hi Mike,

As your little ones will be awake until Spring, might I suggest you order yourself some Herbiseed from www.tortoises.net to feed to your babies. Over wintering torts is never an easy job as there are no weeds available. Many people rely on supermarket salad stuff and altho its okay to use in an emergency, it has very poor nutritional value and will prove costly. The Herbiseed is about 10-00 for the smallest bag which is sufficient (it will last ages). Its a mix of 20 different weeds and wild flowers and its an excellent staple diet for them.
You can grow it in seed trays either in a greenhouse or a south facing windowsill indoors. It wont flower as the seed trays arent deep enough, but you will get lots of greenery and I promise your torts will love it. It will be easy for you to take out a tray in your terranium and replace it with a herbiseed tray, let them go nuts for about 20 minutes then remove it and replace with the original tray. Its best to have 3 or 4 trays growing at the same time, this will allow them to 'rest' in between and re-grow. Keep your trays moist at all times. Herbiseed is an absolute must for all tort owners and it will provide you with healthy, pesticide and dog wee free weeds all year round :-).........and its cheaper and far healthier than anything you can buy in a supermarket.
Pansies and violas are widely available in garden centres at the minute too, your torts can eat the flowers and leaves from these too. These will also flower all winter.
Hope some of this helps

#14 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 10:24 AM

Hi Jo,

Some of the best advice I have seen posted for over wintering and one I am already doing, just waiting for the seeds to arrive. I had visions of scraping off snow to find the green stuff! Its funny as a keen gardener weeds have been the enemy for years and now I am about to grow them and spend some time looking for the freshest leaves in fields!

Nikki, Please do not write in riddles! All 5 tortoises are Eastern Hermanni Boettgeri as far as I am aware and can see with my limited knowledge. If you have an idea that there is a mix then please let me know as I will of course split them. I have read lots of advice on not mixing species due to levels of disease intolerence so would want to avoid this.

Mike

#15 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 11:48 AM

Hi Mike,

Oh thats great, didnt realise you were already on the herbiseed wagon :-) LOL as a fellow green fingered gardener, I too spent years getting rid of every weed in my garden. I now grow them in my greenhouse and indoors and give them more TLC than any of my other plants! I've had great success with dandelion clocks in the greenhouse too, it helps to supplement my herbiseed as my 4 are like lawnmowers when they're let loose on a tray :-)
Im also growing runner beans indoors too, not for the beans as they arent good for them, but they adore the leaves, they germinate in about a week and grow like triffids, great for winter.
You wont believe how excited you'll get when you spot your first dandelion in Spring lol.
Best wishes

#16 Guest_lepinsky_*

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 06:29 PM

Hi Jo,
This is great news about runner bean leaves! I've got huge amounts in the garden and always save some seed for next year. I've never seen them mentioned in any of the lists before (only that the beans themselves were listed as being bad, so I assumed the leaves would be too). And I've only just found out that evening primrose leaves and flowers are OK -- it seems I've got a whole delicatessan in my garden and didn't even know it!

Im also growing runner beans indoors too, not for the beans as they arent good for them, but they adore the leaves, they germinate in about a week and grow like triffids, great for winter.
You wont believe how excited you'll get when you spot your first dandelion in Spring lol.
Best wishes

:)

#17 Guest_nikki_*

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 05:11 PM

Sorry didn't mean to talk in riddles, but one of the torts does not look like the others and I thought it was a different species. I suppose if you looked at all their plastrons you would know if one was different though. The one you showed did not have a plastron like a hermanni boettgeri but I suppose you must know if you have theri papers, unles they are imported of course.

#18 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 09:26 AM

Worms on the way out!!!!

#19 Guest_Joanne666_*

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 09:46 AM

Gross eh !!! thats a lot of worms, poor little torts :-( Are they a bit quieter than normal? How are they eating?

#20 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 11:03 AM

Yes JO its not nice to see! so must be even worse to have them in you.

Only 2 seem affected and have slowed down a lot! But the upside is both have started to eat again which must be a good sign! Out of the 2 Only one has shown any worms so I will monitor them and keep cleaning until all is well.

Arnie I replied to your Email but got -

The following message to was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable'

Cheers

Mike




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