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Cat amongest the pigeons time


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#41 Guest_mattgriffin1_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:51 AM

There is absolutely no nastiness in anything that I have said. This is an open forum and as such anybody is free to challenge any view that they question on the forum.
It is not unreasonable to question methods which one believes may cause harm to animals.
I wonder why it is that whenever anybody questions anything on this forum they are accused of attacking people or causing trouble. Are we supposed to accept everything that is said here without thought and question? Tortoise husbandry will not move forward if this is the case.
I'm afraid this forum has lost several key members over the last 2 years because of these sorts of attitudes and hollow threats like yours Lisa.
It is a shame.
I stand by everything I have said in my discussion with Omare; none of it was meant maliciously.

Matt.

#42 Guest_Simon_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 05:04 PM

There is absolutely no nastiness in anything that I have said. This is an open forum and as such anybody is free to challenge any view that they question on the forum.
It is not unreasonable to question methods which one believes may cause harm to animals.
I wonder why it is that whenever anybody questions anything on this forum they are accused of attacking people or causing trouble. Are we supposed to accept everything that is said here without thought and question? Tortoise husbandry will not move forward if this is the case.
I'm afraid this forum has lost several key members over the last 2 years because of these sorts of attitudes and hollow threats like yours Lisa.
It is a shame.
I stand by everything I have said in my discussion with Omare; none of it was meant maliciously.

Matt.


What hollow threats has Lisa made to you then Matt? Having read all the threads that have been posted I have to agree with the ladies on this one. None of them have questioned what you do with your tortoises regarding hibernation and so why should you question them. Everyone has different views, who is to say that in ten years time people will view hibernating tortoises differently, the ladies may prove you all wrong. I have friends who also choose not to hibernate, their choice. Why should anyone have to give a reason why they do it. Your reason for hibernating is simply for the welfare of the tortoise, who is to say in years to come it may come to light that you could do them damage by hibernating them, you may say it's rubbish now but stranger things have happened. Lets not get into an argument, we've all been here before on subjects like this and we are never going to agree so lets move on. Omare has made it very clear as has Lisa and Andrea, accept their views and move on.

#43 Guest_mattgriffin1_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 06:42 PM


There is absolutely no nastiness in anything that I have said. This is an open forum and as such anybody is free to challenge any view that they question on the forum.
It is not unreasonable to question methods which one believes may cause harm to animals.
I wonder why it is that whenever anybody questions anything on this forum they are accused of attacking people or causing trouble. Are we supposed to accept everything that is said here without thought and question? Tortoise husbandry will not move forward if this is the case.
I'm afraid this forum has lost several key members over the last 2 years because of these sorts of attitudes and hollow threats like yours Lisa.
It is a shame.
I stand by everything I have said in my discussion with Omare; none of it was meant maliciously.

Matt.


What hollow threats has Lisa made to you then Matt? Having read all the threads that have been posted I have to agree with the ladies on this one. None of them have questioned what you do with your tortoises regarding hibernation and so why should you question them. Everyone has different views, who is to say that in ten years time people will view hibernating tortoises differently, the ladies may prove you all wrong. I have friends who also choose not to hibernate, their choice. Why should anyone have to give a reason why they do it. Your reason for hibernating is simply for the welfare of the tortoise, who is to say in years to come it may come to light that you could do them damage by hibernating them, you may say it's rubbish now but stranger things have happened. Lets not get into an argument, we've all been here before on subjects like this and we are never going to agree so lets move on. Omare has made it very clear as has Lisa and Andrea, accept their views and move on.



The hollow threat Simon was that the webmaster may boot me off the list for what amounts to questioning a persons view. You ask why I question them and the simple answer is that the overwhelming evidence in the literature is in favour of hibernating these species and nobody has yet produced any good evidence here for not hibernating them apart from personal choice, which is exactly what it says it is. These species have been hibernating for millions of years which cannot be disputed and I find it incredulous that keepers are happy to disregard this fact and the overwhelming evidence for hibernation for the sake of their own convenience. The ladies may be happy to accept what I do without question but if we all just accept what each other do with no question and no debate then how can we hope to learn from each other and advance our knowledge of tortoise husbandry for the good of the species? That would make forums such as these a place for pleasant chit chat to pass the time but nothing more. If that is what the members of this forum want then I have been misguided in offering an opinion here and questioning others and will go elsewhere.

Matt.

#44 Guest_arnhib_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 05:16 PM

Please don't bring London Zoo into this discussion, I e=mailed them about that comment and as of yet had no reply, they probably choose not to hibernate so the visitors have something to look at in the Winter, but they are not going to tell you that side of things are they
Arnie

Like Andrea888 has said, London Zoo don't hibernate and so if they thought that they were doing something wrong they would change.

#45 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 05:23 PM

Why can't everyone on this forum accept that everyone does things differently. Why do the people who admit to not hibernating their tortoises get slated for it? Do we have to stay quiet just to please people. What a lot of liars we would be if we all said, oh yes we hibernate knowing full well we don't. Why does a simple sentance turn into a nightmare senario. I'm not gonna lie to please people.

#46 Guest_mattgriffin1_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 06:43 PM

Quote
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There is absolutely no nastiness in anything that I have said. This is an open forum and as such anybody is free to challenge any view that they question on the forum.
It is not unreasonable to question methods which one believes may cause harm to animals.
I wonder why it is that whenever anybody questions anything on this forum they are accused of attacking people or causing trouble. Are we supposed to accept everything that is said here without thought and question? Tortoise husbandry will not move forward if this is the case.
I'm afraid this forum has lost several key members over the last 2 years because of these sorts of attitudes and hollow threats like yours Lisa.
It is a shame.
I stand by everything I have said in my discussion with Omare; none of it was meant maliciously.
Matt.


What hollow threats has Lisa made to you then Matt? Having read all the threads that have been posted I have to agree with the ladies on this one. None of them have questioned what you do with your tortoises regarding hibernation and so why should you question them. Everyone has different views, who is to say that in ten years time people will view hibernating tortoises differently, the ladies may prove you all wrong. I have friends who also choose not to hibernate, their choice. Why should anyone have to give a reason why they do it. Your reason for hibernating is simply for the welfare of the tortoise, who is to say in years to come it may come to light that you could do them damage by hibernating them, you may say it's rubbish now but stranger things have happened. Lets not get into an argument, we've all been here before on subjects like this and we are never going to agree so lets move on. Omare has made it very clear as has Lisa and Andrea, accept their views and move on.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The hollow threat Simon was that the webmaster may boot me off the list for what amounts to questioning a persons view. You ask why I question them and the simple answer is that the overwhelming evidence in the literature is in favour of hibernating these species and nobody has yet produced any good evidence here for not hibernating them apart from personal choice, which is exactly what it says it is. These species have been hibernating for millions of years which cannot be disputed and I find it incredulous that keepers are happy to disregard this fact and the overwhelming evidence for hibernation for the sake of their own convenience. The ladies may be happy to accept what I do without question but if we all just accept what each other do with no question and no debate then how can we hope to learn from each other and advance our knowledge of tortoise husbandry for the good of the species? That would make forums such as these a place for pleasant chit chat to pass the time but nothing more. If that is what the members of this forum want then I have been misguided in offering an opinion here and questioning others and will go elsewhere.

Matt.

#47 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 06:48 PM

Hey Matt, Peace man, so we had a difference of opinion, no hard feelings huh. We all have different thoughts on the matter, doesn't mean we have to be at loggerheads with eachother, friends:)

#48 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:18 PM

Hi all,

I agree Matt should apolagize and then be reported to the web master! He is to opinionated and even dared to voice his opinion on this forum about Hibernation!!!

And Simon agrees...

Oh come on what is this site generating into? Some very knowledgable people broke the rules and have gone recently and yes they were pro hibernation but what I am reading here is futile and is going no where to making a good site.

GROW UP.

Mike

#49 Guest_lisa0307_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:22 PM

Simon didn't say that at all Mike. He was saying that everyone has an opinion and you won't agree all the time but just because a person doesn't hibernate it shouldn't make them feel any less a part of this forum. :(

#50 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:43 PM

Exactly Lisa, just cause you don't hibernate it shouldn't make you feel any less of a contributor to this forum. Everyone has something to offer and just cause you don't agree with someone don't give you the right to be nasty. :(

#51 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:46 PM

i totally agree

#52 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:55 PM

Everyone is entitled to an opionion.

"She has said nothing wrong to you but you have chosen to get nasty, remember what happened to the last people to get nasty on this forum, we don't want it to happen again, do we. Everyone should be entitiled to free speech, not just yourself"

Matt was not in anyway out of order but probably posted one of the most muture posts for a while!

As I said its a forum and opinions rule.

And as I said GROW UP.

Mike

#53 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:56 PM

Mike, this topic ended ages ago lol

#54 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:02 PM

LOL

No it has not.

Have you decided the topic ended?

No, Its a forum. A free for all within the rules.

You have had your say and now I am having mine.

Mike

#55 Guest_omare_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:04 PM

In your own time Mike, we're listening.lol

#56 Guest_rupert_the_dog_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:25 PM

Patronise. To treat in a condescending way.

Now My original post for calm and "to grow up" has been lost on me! because as I look at the last few posts including mine I am guilty of the nonsense of which I was speaking against.

Mike

#57 Guest_mattgriffin1_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:44 PM

I would like to know when the likes of Omare, Lisa, Simon and others were put in charge of this forum and given the right to police the posts and put an end to discussions on here. You are constantly trying to smooth things over and sweep disagreements under the carpet. What is wrong with having a lively debate with all views put forward and discussed. There has been no nastiness on this thread so why must we keep agreeing to disagree? I can only assume it is because those with no real substance to their point keep getting defensive and trying to evade the topic!

Matt.

#58 Guest_blondesarah_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:49 PM

Is it just me or is it like nikki and joanne666 are back ????

#59 Guest_mattgriffin1_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:50 PM

Is it just me or is it like nikki and joanne666 are back ????


I despair!

#60 Guest_amy_smith33_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 11:00 PM

Head and brick wall come to mind Matt.




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