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#1 cocktail&pimms

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:37 PM

the original breeder of our two hermann who we were given in a rehoming situation is demanding them back and as she is the boss of the lady we got them from she is being really nasty about it..
what can we do, i dont want to give them back..

#2 Guest_Chrissyan_*

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:47 PM

Oh no, you have no paperwork, letter, or paper trail of any kind, to show what happened. Can you speak to the breeder directly and explain to her all the trouble, time & money you have spent ensuring they have the best home? If she gave them away, or even sold them to the person you got them off, I don't see how she can legally do this, on the other hand ,I don't see how you can prove ownership either. :angry:

Torts are solitary in the wild, when they get older it may not be possible to house them together, two males will fight and a one to one male to female is not a good ratio either, perhaps your best option is to try & do a deal with her and try to keep one of them, it sounds as if you have a fight on your hands. Good luck and keep us updated. :fingers_crossed:

#3 Freddy

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:48 PM

If the tortoises were given to you by the owner then they are yours to keep. I suspect the real problem may lie with their certs or lack of.
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#4 jay

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:54 PM

Hello
how terrible for you,you would think she would be grateful not nasty,especially the way they were kept,hopefully you can try and talk to her and sort the problem out,i thought once they were rehomed they were yours i rehomed two of my torts and i would be heart broken if they wanted them back. wish you the best of luck.
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#5 cocktail&pimms

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:42 PM

we think she must not have registered them in the first place, but not sure of the that situation...
we are asking for our contact details to be handed to her so that we can explain to her the time and money that we have already put into them and that they will have a great home with us. i have already spent about £200 in less than a week.

#6 MeImNot

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:15 PM

Maybe she's pissed because she got to know now how the torts were being kept...I think if you explain to her directly the effort you're making she'll let it go.

Good luck with this

#7 mildredsmam

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:26 PM

hi i dont see how she can do this if she sold these tortoise to the lady you got them from then its her choise what she wants to do with them which was give them to you i would,nt give them back you,ve give them a great home let us know how you get on :)

#8 Guest_Chrissyan_*

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:31 PM

You may not want to, but,you will need to tell her that their care has been sadly lacking up to now. you may have to get a little dirty to keep them. I bet she thinks as a novice you can't look after them well, little does she know, you are their savour and it was her employee that didn't know how to treat them. You have gained enough knowledge from your research & questions on here to be able to show her you know what you are doing tortoise care wise. :)

So do you now think the previous owner was being economical with the truth, when she said she had their papers & couldn't find them? If the breeder didn't register them and sell them for £100 each, as most others would have done, then the only thing I can think of is that her Hermanns, the parents, are not legally registered, so she couldn't. She may be worried she is going to get caught out breaking the law over a protected species, in that case your torts can never be legal either, but it does you give the upper hand to tell her to get lost, or you will report her DEFRA :)

#9 cocktail&pimms

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:00 PM

We should here back from her either way tomorrow, I will be having stern words with her if she hasn't registered and thinks she can bully others. im confident that i can give them a good home and am willing to put in the time and effort with them so i will be fighting to keep them x

#10 Guest_Chrissyan_*

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:07 PM

im confident that i can give them a good home

so are we. :thumbup: You go for it girl, hang onto those lovely torts. :)

#11 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:28 PM

I'm having trouble replying to posts on here for some reason - keep getting 'saving post' reminder!!
ANYWAY - If the person wanting them back, did not object to them leaving her care in the first place, there is not a lot she can do to make you give them back. She can take you to court through the small claims courts as a civil matter, but it is unlikely to rule in her favour unless she can produce papers to say she bred them from her own registered stock, or if she has papers signed by you to say that you agreed to give them back to her. If she gave them to the other person, then she has to take it up with her. I only know about this because it happened to me, only the other way round. I let a friend take one of my tortoises to try to help a rehomer of hers that had lived alone for many years and was not responding to feeding etc. The arrangement was that I would take the tortoise back when things improved, or not as the case may be. Meanwhile there was serious family illness here involving a child so I did not rush to take him back. When I did finally ask for him back, she refused and despite police intervention, repeated letters to them via registered mail etc, I was never able to get him back. Had I got a written letter to say that he was to be given back, it would have been a different matter. It's not something you expect to do with a friend.I just hope that he has received the same level of care that he has here. If you would like to discuss this privately, I am more than happy to tell you more about my own experience.

#12 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:29 PM

Oh no, you have no paperwork, letter, or paper trail of any kind, to show what happened. Can you speak to the breeder directly and explain to her all the trouble, time & money you have spent ensuring they have the best home? If she gave them away, or even sold them to the person you got them off, I don't see how she can legally do this, on the other hand ,I don't see how you can prove ownership either. :angry:

Torts are solitary in the wild, when they get older it may not be possible to house them together, two males will fight and a one to one male to female is not a good ratio either, perhaps your best option is to try & do a deal with her and try to keep one of them, it sounds as if you have a fight on your hands. Good luck and keep us updated. :fingers_crossed:


Sorry to but in, but two males that have always been together and cannot smell females, will usually be fine together. They only fight if introduced at a later date or if there are females around ;) Hope this helps

#13 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:34 PM

You may not want to, but,you will need to tell her that their care has been sadly lacking up to now. you may have to get a little dirty to keep them. I bet she thinks as a novice you can't look after them well, little does she know, you are their savour and it was her employee that didn't know how to treat them. You have gained enough knowledge from your research & questions on here to be able to show her you know what you are doing tortoise care wise. :)

So do you now think the previous owner was being economical with the truth, when she said she had their papers & couldn't find them? If the breeder didn't register them and sell them for £100 each, as most others would have done, then the only thing I can think of is that her Hermanns, the parents, are not legally registered, so she couldn't. She may be worried she is going to get caught out breaking the law over a protected species, in that case your torts can never be legal either, but it does you give the upper hand to tell her to get lost, or you will report her DEFRA :)



Exactly! If there are no papers forthcoming, neither of the previous owners would appear to have a leg to stand on. Willingly selling hermanns without paperwork can carry a jail sentence. If she suddenly turns up with paperwork, then do check with DEFRA that this paperwork relates to your tortoises and tell her that you intend to do this.

#14 cocktail&pimms

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:14 AM

Thank you everyone for your support :-)

#15 cocktail&pimms

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:16 AM

I'm having trouble replying to posts on here for some reason - keep getting 'saving post' reminder!!
ANYWAY - If the person wanting them back, did not object to them leaving her care in the first place, there is not a lot she can do to make you give them back. She can take you to court through the small claims courts as a civil matter, but it is unlikely to rule in her favour unless she can produce papers to say she bred them from her own registered stock, or if she has papers signed by you to say that you agreed to give them back to her. If she gave them to the other person, then she has to take it up with her. I only know about this because it happened to me, only the other way round. I let a friend take one of my tortoises to try to help a rehomer of hers that had lived alone for many years and was not responding to feeding etc. The arrangement was that I would take the tortoise back when things improved, or not as the case may be. Meanwhile there was serious family illness here involving a child so I did not rush to take him back. When I did finally ask for him back, she refused and despite police intervention, repeated letters to them via registered mail etc, I was never able to get him back. Had I got a written letter to say that he was to be given back, it would have been a different matter. It's not something you expect to do with a friend.I just hope that he has received the same level of care that he has here. If you would like to discuss this privately, I am more than happy to tell you more about my own experience.


You are welcome to pm me x

#16 cocktail&pimms

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:07 PM

There has been nothing further from her yet so think Shes going to let them stay :-) :-)

#17 Sheli88

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:30 PM

Yayy :)

#18 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:32 PM

That's good. If you need any help feel free to mail me on wizzasmum@aol.com Good luck

#19 mildredsmam

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:53 PM

thats great :)

#20 Guest_Chrissyan_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:41 PM

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