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How Big Should A Glass Vivarium Be For 2 Hermann Tortoises ?


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#21 mildredsmam

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

Wizzasmum,

The breeder I got my pet tortoises from has over 40 tortoises.
she has had every single one of them since she was a child and now she is a very experienced hermann tortoise breeder.
More than half of her tortoises are older than 30 years old.
So I think i will just follow her advice rather than someone I do not even know.

P.S. When I mean professionals I mean professionals not dealers or cormmercial outlets.
Thank you very much

what do you think sues been doing for the last 30 years :rofl:
i think you have been given some good advice but if you want to go with what your breeder says thats fine, but at the end of the day if you dont want our advice then dont ask for it, its as simple as that.

#22 Claireybelle

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:38 PM

All I can say is after seeing the most "depressed" looking tortoises yesterday in a pet shop vivariun, which was too small, too hot and I have worried about these guys ever since I left the shop. I have put up piccies on another thread "Sad Horsefield in a Pet shop" :-( I am just so glad I researched what I did, I also brought from a commercial breeder and I now know some of the info she was telling me was rubbish. (Still better than a pet shop).

The pet shop man lied to us, he did not have a clue ! Tortoise tables are cheaper than vivariuns so I dont understand why pet shops dont sell these as they are more likely to sell the tortoise. £135 for a tort plus £185 for a small viv set up makes it a very expensive pet. The 2 torts have a long wait for that much needed home.

#23 Kelly

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

I think alot of it stems from what was considered good practice about a decade ago. Unfortunately, most people haven't kept up to date with modern day research.... so they believe they are doing the best thing. :(

#24 MeImNot

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:23 PM

It goes beyond me why someone asks a question then gets angry when he gets answers he don't like :/

#25 den2908

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

Here here!

#26 Junior

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:03 PM

I am Junior's mum and like Junior, we are very interested in making sure we do the right thing for our two baby tortoises. I would like to thank you all for your advice and recommendations - it is very much appreciated, and the reason why we wanted to join this forum.

We live in Switzerland, and it is cold here now. Snow is forecast this weekend. Our tortoises are very small, only four months old, but they seem to be doing well. We are following the tips we get here and from other friends of ours who also have Hermanns. We bought them from a nurse here (in her 50s), visited her home, and can say her tortoises looked wonderful (big and small). It took us several months to find someone like her and we would never want to buy any pet from a pet store. Junior cares so much about them, and about all animals.

We will strive to do or very best and will take any advice you have to give. :-) We thank you once again for your posts and advice

Have a great weekend!

:-)

#27 Junior

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:24 PM

Excuse me, not four, but three months old! :-)
Have a great weekend!

#28 Freddy

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:35 PM

Hi Juniors Mum,
Thank you for your kind post. We like Junior care a great deal about tortoises and try to give the best advice we can. We are sorry for any misunderstanding there may have been on the thread and are happy to help you both in any way possible. We look forward to hearing from Junior again soon and hope he will make many new friends while on the forum. Take care.
Kind Regards
Freddy

#29 den2908

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:24 PM

Hi Junior and Juniors mum,
This is a great forum for learning how to achieve the right husbandry for your torts.I have two young hermanns and have been on a real learning curve over the last few months. I decided to keep my hermanns in a table after doing research on here before i bought them. I guess what made me choose a table and not a viv was that i think a table gives a more natural environment. In the wild they live in the open with good air circulation and i dont think that a viv could replicate this.(just my personal opinion though). I think it helps to do some research on the country they naturally occur in - things like checking night and day temps and looking at rainfall and hours of sunshine etc. I think most people on the forum use a table ( although not everyone of course). I know i have only had mine since may this year but i have collected so much useful information on here from very experienced people and i have two thriving tortoises with good shell growth to show for it. Its a great place to learn what you need to know.

Denise

#30 Freddy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:10 PM

To be honest Guys, Switzerland is a very cold place at the moment and is experiencing freezing temperatures.
Air temperatures indoors are probably not a whole lot better either.
I wonder how this would affect an open top enclosure.
Perhaps Junior's baby torts are better off in their warm viv? :)
Regards
Freddy

#31 Guest_Wizzasmum_*

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:31 PM

To be honest Guys, Switzerland is a very cold place at the moment and is experiencing freezing temperatures.
Air temperatures indoors are probably not a whole lot better either.
I wonder how this would affect an open top enclosure.
Perhaps Junior's baby torts are better off in their warm viv? :)
Regards
Freddy

In such conditions, a viv can certainly be used, but the danger is that some people stop after reading that bit and go on to buy a small petshop offered viv with incorrect substrate, heating and airflow. What keepers need to know is, that for a viv to be useful it needs to be at least 4ft in length and despite freezing temps outdoors, still has to have a controlled airflow, stat controlled heating and deep substrate for the tortoise to be able to thermoregulate properly. Depth of substrate can be obtained by putting a barrier across the full length of the viv, several inches from the front, several inches deep and with a build up of substrate towards the back of the viv. The front area can be filled with stones to prevent substrate getting into the runners. It obviously needs to have a floor area of around 8 sq feet for this to work, which not many people are able or willing to provide. I would only be happy to use this for temporary accomodation and not in summer time, where tortoises need to be outdoors. I do not know much about Switzerland, temp wise, but if it is a country where there is not a lot of access to outdoor areas, then I am saddened to think that a creature such as a tortoise is available as a pet there. If summers are generally good, then I would suggest winter hibernation and the viv to be used at either end of the season under strict supervision.

#32 Junior

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:35 PM

Hi again, this is Junior's mum.

Thank you Freddy. :-) They still seem to be doing pretty well ! We keep the temperatures steady and the lights too. Winter is here but our viv is in fact open topped - air can circulate easily throughout the enclosure.

Thank you Wizzasmum for your concerns too. Switzerland may well be a little colder over the winter months (most people hibernate their tortoises inside, in a hay box in their (heat controlled) garage) - however, our summers are much much warmer and drier than Britain ;-)

It may be a small country, but, believe me, it has plenty of outdoor spaces too! ;-) In fact, I can highly recommend the climate and good old outdoor spaces for either human or tortoise!

Have a great week,

#33 Claireybelle

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

Out of interest how old is Junior ????? Sorry I am just wondering and hope you don't mind me asking. it could explain some of the earlier misunderstandings and he is obviously very dedicated and protective of his tortoises. My son is the same. Wow, you guys for living in Switzerland x x x

#34 Freddy

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

Hi Juniors Mum,
Thank you for helping to clarify matters with regard to your set-up. It has improved our understanding of your particular situation.
The forum has always attracted younger members. In fact they are most welcome. We hope that you and Junior will use the forum in future. Should you have any questions or queries or should you need any further advice please do not hesitate to ask. We would only be too delighted to help. :)
Take care. ;)
Kind Regards
Freddy :D

#35 Freddy

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

Out of interest how old is Junior ????? Sorry I am just wondering and hope you don't mind me asking. it could explain some of the earlier misunderstandings and he is obviously very dedicated and protective of his tortoises. My son is the same. Wow, you guys for living in Switzerland x x x


It is not important how old Junior is. If he is old enough to look after tortoises he is old enough to post here. Any misunderstanding there may have been is now in the past. It is time to move on.... ;)

Freddy (Moderator)

#36 Junior

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:10 PM

Thanks Freddy :)

#37 Pennytort

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

Hi junior, I have read this thread with interest, and I just wanted to say in my experience as a new keeper, 18 months now, I have found the forum to be really helpful, and would like to urge you to continue to seek support and advice.

I set out to do all the right things and was given some bad advice from a pet shop owner, who I really thought knew his topic. We bought 2 hermanns. I was struggling between a viv and a table. He persuaded me to go with the viv because I had 3 cats and we didn't want them using it as a litter box. We bought the viv��. I then joined the forum and was horrified by what we appeared to have done. We have a four foot by two foot viv. We then drilled over x20 3 inch diameter holes in the top of it, resembling Swiss cheese, excuse the pun. All the temps and humidity are fine, basking area, colder area, deep substrate. All of which are closely monitored. They spend the summer outside, and on cold wet days they are indoors. They have their fresh weeds picked daily. However, when they are hibernated this year, we will be replacing our holey viv with a table, and they will have an extension to their outdoor enclosure, which will include heat.

My point is that we learn from those with experience, and some changes may not be achieved overnight, but we should always keep an open mind, and learn from them, then that's ok by me��
Wishing you and your little ones well. ( missed their names - sorry)

Anne x

#38 Freddy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

As Moderator I have taken the unusual step of closing this thread. I'm sure all advice given has now been gratefully received by Junior and his mum. It is definitely time to move on methinks....
Freddy




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