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New Mummy Worries...

Obsese lazy tortoise?

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#1 newmummy

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 05:33 PM

Hi,
I'm a new owner - 10days. I have two year old hatchlings and they couldn't be more different! Basically one is really active, eats well, has a flat wide shell & poops regularly. The other is well erm lazy. She eats slightly less than the other and basically sleeps most of the time. She is only active for a few minutes at a time and then sleeps. No escape efforts/climbing. The other is active on a number of occasions during the day which would be several hours. They both get regular baths. The lazy one is also more dome shaped and i've never seen her poop. The other one poops in the bath. Miss active totally buries herself when she sleeps. Sleepyhead just slightly buries her front end.

Miss active is 50mm and 34 or 36g depending on time of day/bath or not (she actually looks bigger than the other). Whereas sleepyhead is 53mm and 41 or 43g. She is noticeably heavier to pick up. I'm worried that shes too heavy or really constipated! I've not taken them to the vet yet as i wanted them to settle in before i took them. Both are interested and look at me.

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:57 PM

Are you sure they are the same species? Pics will help us to see if one is more normal than the other.  Did you get them from a breeder, as they should be able to advise you as to what the problem might be. More info, such as how you are keeping them, what temperatures, substrate food etc they are having will help too ;)



#3 newmummy

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:43 PM

Yes I got them from a well known breeder! They are both from same clutch. Tortoise table with hide at one end. 32 at the warm end. Soil:play sand substrate, pebbles for climbing on, exo terra water dish, slate tiles feeding area, hay in hide, heat/light 10 hrs a day. I dont know how to put photos up! But you cant really see the different shapes in the ones ive got already and they are sleeping now. Will try tomorrow! At the minute i feed them once a day in the morning (dandelions mostly, and also tried fushia, clover, mulberry leaves. I've got lambs lettuce growing but not ready yet, also spider plant and pansies). They both wake, eat, then sleep for about 1-2hrs. Then theres usually a period of activity for both of different lengths. They both get in the water dish and i see both drinking.

I was thinking shall i feed them in the afternoon so that they spend the morning looking for the food?

The other thing i forgot to say it that ive seen the lazy one eating the substrate. That was a few days ago but twice. i read that this can happen when they move/get new substrate? She keen to eat so not full and the two always wrestle over the leaf! I am worried that if i delay feeding she will eat more substrate. They both look at me too as if to say get me the food now!!

I give them enough for 30mins eating time. (which is a tiny amount! One big leaf or a number of tiny ones)

#4 newmummy

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:45 PM

Oh yes cuttle fish bone available and also calcium dusting & vitamins

#5 mildredsmam

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:33 AM

hi welcome to the forum. :)

tortoises don't like change and can take some time to settle into a new enclosure, 10 days isn't long one might of settled faster than the other.

I would take the hay out of the sleeping area as torts don't need any bedding just have soil in there so they can dig down on a night, also I would change your substrate to just top soil with out the sand, sand can cause eye problems and make the substrate quite dry, do you water the substrate?

also what temperature are you getting in the cool side of the table.

for feeding try and scatter the food around the enclosure so they have to look for it, and give as much variety as you can.

looking forward to seeing pictures of them. :)



#6 newmummy

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:08 AM

Hi,

Yes I've ben watering the substrate and I put hay in the hide as both the breeder and the man (a tortoise keeper) who made me the table told me to! This is in addition to the soil/sand substrate. I've found a photo of them in the bath that you can see the difference in dome-flat shell quite well. The lazy one (Tortie) is on the left and the active one (Mulberry) is on the right. BTW this isn't the water dish they have available all the time as its too big. I just gave them a bath in it.



#7 newmummy

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:09 AM

opps didn't attach it properly. Here it is! Attached File  photo(4).JPG   42.03KB   3 downloads



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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:34 PM

Yes I got them from a well known breeder! They are both from same clutch. Tortoise table with hide at one end. 32 at the warm end. Soil:play sand substrate, pebbles for climbing on, exo terra water dish, slate tiles feeding area, hay in hide, heat/light 10 hrs a day. I dont know how to put photos up! But you cant really see the different shapes in the ones ive got already and they are sleeping now. Will try tomorrow! At the minute i feed them once a day in the morning (dandelions mostly, and also tried fushia, clover, mulberry leaves. I've got lambs lettuce growing but not ready yet, also spider plant and pansies). They both wake, eat, then sleep for about 1-2hrs. Then theres usually a period of activity for both of different lengths. They both get in the water dish and i see both drinking.

I was thinking shall i feed them in the afternoon so that they spend the morning looking for the food?

The other thing i forgot to say it that ive seen the lazy one eating the substrate. That was a few days ago but twice. i read that this can happen when they move/get new substrate? She keen to eat so not full and the two always wrestle over the leaf! I am worried that if i delay feeding she will eat more substrate. They both look at me too as if to say get me the food now!!

I give them enough for 30mins eating time. (which is a tiny amount! One big leaf or a number of tiny ones)

I would remove the hay as it serves no purpose, but can contribute to mould spores and therefore respiratory infection - hopefully it was not on the advice of breeder ;) Yes, feeding later would be a good idea, to get them to use muscles. If they are drinking daily, I would water the substrate more, as they could be slightly dehydrated. Careful feeding too much dandelion as it is diuretic and could be contributing to dehydration too, if the substrate is very dry. As mentioned I would avoid sand as it could cause impaction if eaten ;) 



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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:36 PM

opps didn't attach it properly. Here it is! attachicon.gifphoto(4).JPG

Cute, do you know the subspecies?



#10 newmummy

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:09 PM

No I don't know the sub-species and it doesn't say on the cites certificate just species.

 

She was a little bit better yesterday as I didn't feed until the afternoon so was active for several hrs in the morning. But today she is sleeping a lot again. The other one has been awake and active from 9am til now 2pm with just about 30mins nap after food at 11am. How active should they be? I think the sleepy one is active/awake for maximum of 2 hours and never tries to climb the walls. I gave her a half hour bath this morning and she didn't poo or wee. Miss active had a wee in the bath after about 30 seconds.

 

I'm taking them to the vet tomorrow for an initial check up.



#11 Beermat89

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 04:06 PM

From my experience in watching mine,they all have different personalities,i find the more active they are they obviously eat a little more to compensate for this and the less active they are the less they eat.i find my male is more active to my females

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:05 PM

No I don't know the sub-species and it doesn't say on the cites certificate just species.

 

She was a little bit better yesterday as I didn't feed until the afternoon so was active for several hrs in the morning. But today she is sleeping a lot again. The other one has been awake and active from 9am til now 2pm with just about 30mins nap after food at 11am. How active should they be? I think the sleepy one is active/awake for maximum of 2 hours and never tries to climb the walls. I gave her a half hour bath this morning and she didn't poo or wee. Miss active had a wee in the bath after about 30 seconds.

 

I'm taking them to the vet tomorrow for an initial check up.

How old are they? It's early days yet. I would not do a vet visit to be honest as there is nothing he can tell you at this size other than you can see for yourself. They are too small for bloods etc, so you have to accept what the breeder tells you to be honest. Increase your heat and make sure it drops right down at night. Activity varies between tortoises and it's early days yet for them to have settled into a new environment. DEFRA don't put subspecies on the certs unfortunately but your breeder, if legit, should definitely know the subspecies.



#13 newmummy

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 06:30 PM

They hatched august 2012 and they are easterns.

Took them to the vet as i wanted to make sure they were booked in somewhere in case of emergency. It is a specific reptile vet nearby. She gave me a thorough testing of my knowledge and recommended places to get suitable seeds. She said the both looked good although recommended uping the temperature to 35 and giving nutrobal every day rather than every other day rather than rotating with calcium supplement the breeder recommended as shells a little soft. She said they don't recommend worming unless they have a very heavy burden and has given me a pot to collect samples that i need to drop in for her to look at.

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

Sounds good. I always do daily supplementation after talking to the person who formulated nutrobal, which was intended for daily use. Not sure why various forums etc change the recommended dosage, There are three subspecies of hermanns, Th hermanni Th boettgeri and Th hercegovinensis ;)  Mine are all boettgeri ;) 



#15 Graham

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:06 PM

Sue, could you elaborate on the supplementing of Nutrobal, please? I've read many conflicting reports, some saying that it can be harmful if fed too often. I'm reluctant to give it to Harry more than once a week because of this, and would really appreciate an expert opinion from yourself.

Many thanks



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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

Hi Graham, the advice given by Peter Scott who formulated it, was to give daily to growing tortoises (slightly less when outdoors and fed on natural growth) and three times a week to adults, which obviously already have bones formed, unless they have MBD, when they need daily supplementation and the best uvb available. I supplement all my indoor babies daily and given extra limestone when outdoors and to breeding females. Hope this makes sense.  



#17 Beermat89

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

I give mine nutrolbal every other day but if its ok to give them a daily amount then i will up it aswell

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:22 PM

I give mine nutrolbal every other day but if its ok to give them a daily amount then i will up it aswell

Depends on how old they are and not forgetting that the dosage is 1 pinch per kilo, so only a tiny bit. The other advantage of supplementing daily is that they cannot be picky and wait for the days without additives, to eat more. Obviously if you are not happy giving that dose daily, it's easily given at a lower ratio to avoid giving so much. If you use Nekton though, this doesn't seem to be a problem as they do seem to prefer the taste ;)  Nutrobal taste gets stronger as it ages ;)



#19 Graham

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:30 PM

Thank you, Sue, that's very helpful; I think come the Spring, I'll up the dose to twice a week.



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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:43 PM

Sue.... (You will be so tired of all the questioning).... Mine are outside all the time, and ages vary from 80+ to 5 yrs... I was always under the impression not to supplement when fed a total weed diet. Are we now thinking that a sprinkling over weeds is the best course of action x x x hugs x




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