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Herman Holding On To Eggs!


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#1 alimay

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 11:43 AM

Hi,

 

I have a 50 years + Female Hermann called Sammie! 

 

She spent last year with a friend of mine whilst I was away, My friend had a male Hermann and they did mate.

 

Sammie came back to us this year after hibernation, to just drop two eggs on the floor. They turned out to be infertile.

 

She has recently started to slow down ready for hibernating again, we thought we ought to get an x-ray done just to make sure she didn't have any further eggs. Low and behold she has 4 clearly seen on the x-ray. 

 

We have warmed her back up by setting up an indoor enclosure, where she has a nesting box with heat lamp, UVB lamp and she has started eating again.

 

We obviously aren't going to hibernate this year, but just wondered if anyone had any advice on getting her to lay the eggs?

 

Our vet is keen to give her a shot of oxytocin??? Has anyone used this before?

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated. :-)   AliAttached File  10409049_695622987196991_3210867035464700192_n (1).jpg   46.63KB   0 downloads



#2 Guest_SueBoyle (was wizzasmum)_*

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 12:56 PM

Hi,
 
I have a 50 years + Female Hermann called Sammie! 
 
She spent last year with a friend of mine whilst I was away, My friend had a male Hermann and they did mate.
 
Sammie came back to us this year after hibernation, to just drop two eggs on the floor. They turned out to be infertile.
 
She has recently started to slow down ready for hibernating again, we thought we ought to get an x-ray done just to make sure she didn't have any further eggs. Low and behold she has 4 clearly seen on the x-ray. 
 
We have warmed her back up by setting up an indoor enclosure, where she has a nesting box with heat lamp, UVB lamp and she has started eating again.
 
We obviously aren't going to hibernate this year, but just wondered if anyone had any advice on getting her to lay the eggs?
 
Our vet is keen to give her a shot of oxytocin??? Has anyone used this before?
 
Any advice is greatly appreciated. :-)   Aliattachicon.gif10409049_695622987196991_3210867035464700192_n (1).jpg


Is your vet an exotics specialist? I am just wondering why he suggested this! Tortoises do carry eggs through hibernation quite normally, they do it in the wild too. If she was my tortoise I would NOT go down this route as you could cause much bigger problems for her. What made you think she needed to release the eggs now. I would continue with wind down if she is happy to do this and carry on as normal. did your vet give a reason for wanting to induce ie trying to lay, incorrect placement of eggs etc. did he suggest calcium shots before the oxytocin at all?

#3 alimay

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 01:03 PM

Hi Sue,

 

Our vet isn't an exotic specialist, but he did speak to one in Loughborough, Who would like us to go down and see him. We have never had eggs before and weren't sure if she should hibernate whilst she hasn't laid them. She hasn't eaten a great deal in September so she is not fat enough to go through hibernation.

 

I personally think we should just give her time to lay when she's ready. I know vets often panic and want to proceed with things quickly, but she is a very old girl and we would not want to do anything which would put her at risk.

 

Thanks Ali



#4 Guest_SueBoyle (was wizzasmum)_*

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 01:18 PM

I would tread very carefully here Ali. 50 is still young for a hermanns. I have one here which lays each year and is over 100 years old. I don't know who the vet is obviously, but he will ask to see you as you would then be another client ;) I had a vet once who suggested oxytocin for one of mine in the autumn, that I since learned did not need it and it took her several years to recover. I didn't know as much those days. They then wanted to open her up and spay her as they said she was old and had run into difficulties as she still did not lay the eggs. When I got suspicious as she seemed healthy and was eating well, I was accused of not caring for my animal and thinking more of the cost. I changed vets, was told she should never have had the oxytocin and could take several years to recover which was spot on. She still lays each summer and sometimes early spring which shows she has a tendency to carry eggs over hibernation just like her wild cousins. Is she def underweight to hibernate, as hibernation will help her to stay in the correct cycle? Maybe it would be an option to give her a short hibernation from January to March, which would be quite acceptable.

#5 alimay

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 01:41 PM

Thats great advice thank Sue. The short hibernation sounds like a plan to me, you never know she may have laid them by then. :)



#6 Beermat89

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 02:04 PM

Totally agree with Sue on this one!vets dont always give the best advice.one of my females carried eggs through last hibernation with no problem and is carrying them again

#7 Guest_SueBoyle (was wizzasmum)_*

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 02:25 PM

It has to be your own decision of course, but even the specialist vets do not always have a good knowledge of how tortoises live in the wild. The best people to ask about this are people who have studied them in the wild or organisations such as the Tortoise Trust. Yes, specialist vets are the best vets to go to when your tortoise is genuinely sick as opposed to the general local one, as they are clued up the best drugs to use and operational procedures, but regarding husbandry issues, I'd always be wary now. There are some brilliant books out there which are very helpful when faced with probems re gravid tortoises, hibernation etc. Just avoid the ones in pet shops and similar places and ask on the forums such as this one for recommendations. For hermanns I always recommend Holger Vetters book about the 3 hermanni subspecies - brilliantly written and does not blind you with science.

Just a thought, were both of the tortoises that mated, the same subspecies do you know?



#8 Guest_SueBoyle (was wizzasmum)_*

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 02:54 PM

She just might, but my guess is that if she is eating normally, she just needs to build up a bit. If she does not lay, then the wake from a short hibernation will usually stimulate them to lay. Just be sure she has an area suitable for laying if you see signs of her being gravid, so she is not hanging on to them for the wrong reason. Is she the same subspecies as the male, as this can sometimes be a problem.



#9 alimay

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 03:10 PM

Thanks for all of your advice!  We have had Sammie for 40 years and have never had any problems with her. She is eating now and is enjoying basking in her nesting box. She is having 3 warm baths a day. Both Tortoises were the same species so hopefully there won't be a problem. The only reason I took her to the vets in the first place was I had heard that they can't hibernate if they are carrying eggs. I will be definitely be getting hold of the book you suggested! (Thanks) Not used to having her awake at this time of year, what kind of food can I feed her over winter, her usual food will not be growing anywhere? 



#10 Guest_SueBoyle (was wizzasmum)_*

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 03:43 PM

Are they boettgeri Alimay?

It's annoying that people are giving out bad advice, that could have been a really bad move you made there :/ I'm sure she will be fine overwintering for one year, but if you can, do give her a short hibernation after Christmas time, as it is one of the important criteria for breeding. You can give her salad stuff, the sort that is found in the Crispy Florette mix in supermarkets, along with chicory, watercress, endive and romaine lettuce. Don't forget the D3 supplements too, as these will have been grown quickly for human consumption and not taken up a lot of the goodness from the soil the same as wild stuff.



#11 alimay

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 04:30 PM

Hi Sue, Yes they are both Boettgeri species.

 

I'm just really glad I found this site, I can't believe I have not used it before. Thanks for all your advice much appreciated! :-)



#12 Guest_SueBoyle (was wizzasmum)_*

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 05:51 PM

That's good then. I'm sure you will be fine just playing it by ear. If she starts restless behaviour or shows a need to dig, then back to the drawing board lol




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