Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Wimbles Hatchmate - Help Appreciated


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 15 January 2016 - 08:27 PM

Hi all,

I won't go into details but a couple of days ago we took in Wimbles Hatchmate Terrence. Terrence had been kept alone since he was seperated from Wimble (when I was given him back in June) but I know I have been irresponsible putting them together immediately - I simply have no other tort accommodation and Terrence was in desperate need of a home and I hope I can provide him with better than he could have potentially ended up in.

I have examined Terrence and he has clear eyes, clean mouth and nostrils, he did normal toileting in his bath, both urine and faeces. I checked his faeces for any hugely obvious worm infestation but all appears ok.

He is more active than Wimble but I expect this is due to a new and much larger environment than he is used to. He has a very different personality and doesn't retreat when initially being picked up and even stretched for a chin rub today. Wimble is so very shy so Terrence is a great suprise on that score.

I haven't weighed, measured or photographed him yet, preferring to let him settle in, but I plan to tomorrow so I can give a little more information. My two primary concerns are that (compared to Wimble) Terrence has what looks like extended 'feathered/frilly' growth to the outer edges of his carapace and he is GREEDY! He eats so much more than Wimble I am concerned Wimble will lose out on food!!

It's early days, plans for an extension to the outdoor enclosure have started already, we hope to have it ready well in time for spring, so they have 'room enough for two' so to speak.

My final question, how long can they be housed together? I don't want to breed so if they are male and female when should they be seperated (I know it will be years away) and if they are both male how soon also? Long term I have plenty of room to house them seperated if required and I am more than willing to do this to ensure they are both happy. I guess you could say I prefer long term planning to short term fixes like this!

Thanks in anticipation

#2 mildredsmam

mildredsmam

    Advanced Tortoise Member

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,826 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:north east

Posted 16 January 2016 - 05:21 AM

Hi,

When you say hatch mate do you mean from a breeder or from a pet shop, you already know this but quarantine should have really been done, some times they can look fine bright eyed etc but can have underlying problems that can't always be seen. :)

With feeding if you have a greedy one try and feed them separate this is what I do with my hatchlings just to make sure their all getting chance to have some thing to eat, if you can post some pictures of your new tortoise then we can take a look at how he/she is growing.

As for them living together that all depends on them and how much space they have, male and female living together is a big no, as the male will stress the female out, males can some times become mature at a younger age, two males can some times live together fine with no females about but they do need a lot of space, I think you'll just have to see how they get on over time, how old are they at the minute. :)



#3 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 January 2016 - 09:38 AM

Thanks Karen.

They came from the same breeder, funnily enough they are numbered 23 and 24, but I suppose that is no guarantee they are actually hatch mates. When I saw them together they were identical in size, back in June when they were sold at Hamm as a year old. They lived together until I was given Wimble.

They are both still asleep at the moment but I shall take pics as soon as they are awake.

#4 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 January 2016 - 01:26 PM

image_zpsruz6rfiy.jpeg

image_zpskbfu5osl.jpeg

image_zpsmsxulxli.jpeg

Wimble is 44g and Terrence is 60g. It's not obvious in the photos but Wimble has a very smooth shell whilst Terrence has definite ridges.

#5 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 January 2016 - 01:26 PM

And a correction, 21 and 24!!

#6 wizzasmum

wizzasmum

    Advanced Tortoise Member

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,141 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Shropshire/Welsh Borders
  • Interests:Family
    Tortoise keeping and breeding
    Gardening
    Greyhound rescue
    Reading
    Walking
    Travelling

Posted 16 January 2016 - 01:32 PM

Thanks Karen.
They came from the same breeder, funnily enough they are numbered 23 and 24, but I suppose that is no guarantee they are actually hatch mates. When I saw them together they were identical in size, back in June when they were sold at Hamm as a year old. They lived together until I was given Wimble.
They are both still asleep at the moment but I shall take pics as soon as they are awake.

No guarantee at all as clutches are never that big ;) Coming from Hamm, it's even less likely. What do your papers say? How old are they? Wimble has a lot of fast growth TBH.

#7 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 January 2016 - 01:50 PM

I did think that Sue, all very concerning, and I'm not doing much better

Do you think Wimble has fast growth? Terrence is much bigger and has slightly raised scutes to the naked eye. Wimble has gained 1-2 g a month from June and has stayed the same since late November, does that sound ok?

#8 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 January 2016 - 01:51 PM

Oh sorry, they were hatched June 2014

#9 Beermat89

Beermat89

    Advanced Tortoise Member

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somerset
  • Interests:Tortoises/reptiles,fishing/football

Posted 16 January 2016 - 07:03 PM

Hi
Wimble has a nice shell indicating good slow shell growth but terrance has very fast growth as you can see by the raised scutes.the extra weird scute is nothing to worry about,this happens in the egg when incubating.

#10 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 January 2016 - 08:42 PM

Thanks Beermat, I had hoped I was doing right by Wimble. Do you think I can slow down Terrences growth so that he doesn't suffer?

#11 wizzasmum

wizzasmum

    Advanced Tortoise Member

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,141 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Shropshire/Welsh Borders
  • Interests:Family
    Tortoise keeping and breeding
    Gardening
    Greyhound rescue
    Reading
    Walking
    Travelling

Posted 16 January 2016 - 09:33 PM

The key is with you re feeding. As Karen says feed them separately. Make sure you weigh them and aim for 2-3 grams gain per month. Same age hatchlings do grow at different rates, but obvious overgrowth needs to be checked by feeding less ;)

#12 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 17 January 2016 - 01:45 PM

Thanks everyone, I only feed Wimble every other day to keep his winter growth in check so when I feed tomorrow I shall do it separately and from then on.

Does anybody know that by feeding less, Terrences shell will recover or will it always show? Just asking out of curiosity really.

#13 Beermat89

Beermat89

    Advanced Tortoise Member

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somerset
  • Interests:Tortoises/reptiles,fishing/football

Posted 17 January 2016 - 02:05 PM

Yes over winter feed little as poss just enough to keep them ticking over as such.as for terrance he will always have a lumpy shell as the damage is done but a good diet and less food will stop it getting any worse :)

#14 wizzasmum

wizzasmum

    Advanced Tortoise Member

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,141 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Shropshire/Welsh Borders
  • Interests:Family
    Tortoise keeping and breeding
    Gardening
    Greyhound rescue
    Reading
    Walking
    Travelling

Posted 17 January 2016 - 05:19 PM

Thanks everyone, I only feed Wimble every other day to keep his winter growth in check so when I feed tomorrow I shall do it separately and from then on.
Does anybody know that by feeding less, Terrences shell will recover or will it always show? Just asking out of curiosity really.


As Matt says it won't recover, but as he is so small it will be hardly noticeable when he matures.

#15 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 18 January 2016 - 07:11 PM

I suppose it just goes to show that even 6 months of the wrong husbandry can really set a little tort back. I have followed all of the advice on here for Wimble and feel very happy that his growth is slow and healthy. Hopefully now I can ensure Terrence has a good future ahead of him.

I am just disappointed in myself for not being able to quarantine, a small mercy is that I have since discovered that Terrence was stool tested only a few weeks ago and everything was clear, so less worry about salmonella etc.

In a few months I will stool test them both again, for my own peace of mind.

In the meantime they are both settled now after a few days bumping into each other and then scooting away in fright! Terrence has realised that weeds might not be as tasty as what he is used to, so is now eating at the same rate as Wimble (many lost hours watching them at feeding time, sat on a little stool next to the table, cuppa in hand haha, such time wasters these torts) which is a relief. They had some opuntia as a treat today too, Terrence took Wimbles lead and after sniffing and nibbling, managed a few mouth fulls.

Their lights went off earlier and they were already buried next to each other, I checked all the temps with my infra red thermometer and decided to add another heat source as the area at 32 was quite small for two to squeeze into, so I now have a good area of 25-32 and the colder end remains at 18.

I am feeling happier now I know they are getting along nicely, it's a joy to know Terrence is now getting what he needs - such a different personality to Wimble, he seems to enjoy being handled and stretches his neck out to have a good look at me. Maybe I am just anthropomorphising him though hehe.

Thanks again to everyone for your help and advice, I'd be lost without this forum!!

#16 wizzasmum

wizzasmum

    Advanced Tortoise Member

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,141 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Shropshire/Welsh Borders
  • Interests:Family
    Tortoise keeping and breeding
    Gardening
    Greyhound rescue
    Reading
    Walking
    Travelling

Posted 18 January 2016 - 08:39 PM

I suppose it just goes to show that even 6 months of the wrong husbandry can really set a little tort back. I have followed all of the advice on here for Wimble and feel very happy that his growth is slow and healthy. Hopefully now I can ensure Terrence has a good future ahead of him.
I am just disappointed in myself for not being able to quarantine, a small mercy is that I have since discovered that Terrence was stool tested only a few weeks ago and everything was clear, so less worry about salmonella etc.
In a few months I will stool test them both again, for my own peace of mind.
In the meantime they are both settled now after a few days bumping into each other and then scooting away in fright! Terrence has realised that weeds might not be as tasty as what he is used to, so is now eating at the same rate as Wimble (many lost hours watching them at feeding time, sat on a little stool next to the table, cuppa in hand haha, such time wasters these torts) which is a relief. They had some opuntia as a treat today too, Terrence took Wimbles lead and after sniffing and nibbling, managed a few mouth fulls.
Their lights went off earlier and they were already buried next to each other, I checked all the temps with my infra red thermometer and decided to add another heat source as the area at 32 was quite small for two to squeeze into, so I now have a good area of 25-32 and the colder end remains at 18.
I am feeling happier now I know they are getting along nicely, it's a joy to know Terrence is now getting what he needs - such a different personality to Wimble, he seems to enjoy being handled and stretches his neck out to have a good look at me. Maybe I am just anthropomorphising him though hehe.
Thanks again to everyone for your help and advice, I'd be lost without this forum!!



Salmonella is rarely an issue, other than to humans. Quarantine is more for incurable disease such as cryptosporidium, chelonian herpesvirus and other incurable, usually fatal diseases. These tend to lie low in affected animals until stressed, such as moving home, introducing other animals, changing substrate etc A stool sample won't show this unless specialist samples are taken.

#17 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 19 January 2016 - 12:10 PM

Is it too late to seperate them now? It's been a week?

If it is still an option I can arrange to move some furniture out and go get another table for him.

I had no idea about the issues you mentioned and simply didn't realise how serious it could be. Ignorance is definitely not bliss.

#18 wizzasmum

wizzasmum

    Advanced Tortoise Member

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,141 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Shropshire/Welsh Borders
  • Interests:Family
    Tortoise keeping and breeding
    Gardening
    Greyhound rescue
    Reading
    Walking
    Travelling

Posted 19 January 2016 - 05:10 PM

It's never too late just in case. I would say though if they both came from the same source then both have probably been exposed to the same pathogens at some point, especially when imported from commercial sales venues.

#19 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:30 PM

Which they both were, transported and lived together for a while before I got Wimble, just the two of them the whole time. Terrence was then kept in the same house as other reptiles (no other torts) so I am guessing cross contamination is a possibility.

I have arranged storage for some furniture which will be moved tomorrow to make room for another table. I now have Terrence in a small rabbit cage bought hastily from the nearest pet shop, with substrate etc but only a heat source and no UV. In the morning I am going to go into town and buy a larger rabbit cage and UV lighting, already have substrate still sealed in bags to use, just need a water dish etc.

I have also changed Wimbles substrate and F10'd his whole enclosure, he happily burrowed down in a bucket of fresh coir while I did it all, good lad.

It's been a very busy, panicky day. The OH is wincing at the cost but I have politely told him to s*d off, he has his motorbike and I have my torts!

I am a bit fuzzy headed and extremely worried my actions might put them both at risk, I keep telling them both I am sorry!

My next question is how long do I quarantine for? The next is are they OK on tables next to each other if I maintain precautions like hand washing and F10 for all cleaning etc?

#20 Reajen01

Reajen01

    Tortoise Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 02 April 2016 - 10:15 PM

Hiya folks, so Terrence and Wimble have been apart for a while, so in the meantime I used my veterinary contact and conducted an Electron Microscope for cryptosporidium plus a reptile cryptosporidium isolate test.. I have no idea how these things work but I trust my vet friends. They are both clear.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users