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#1 gizmosmum

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 05:46 PM

This is a hypothetical question as I'm not thinking of getting another tortoise........
If you know your tort is healthy, and you know the other tortoise personally so know it has also been healthy for a long time. Why quarantine? Surely they have both already been quarantined if they have always lived alone previously. So keeping them separate in their new home would tell you nothing.
I am just curious, not be intending to be contentious.:-)

#2 wizzasmum

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 07:56 PM

It's one of those things that there is truly no certain answer to. Animals carrying infectious illness can carry them in many cases for several years. When stress happens, this can bring out an illness that has never surfaced before. Change is stressful to tortoises, so bringing in a new one, whatever its origin, can upset the apple art and of course given the length of time many tortoise ailments take to surface a lengthy quarantine period is required. Obviously if you have your tortoise from a breeder and buy another one while young from the same source, the risk is much lower :)

#3 Rue

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 09:35 PM

I've discussed this several times, with vets and breeders, but in conjunction with other animals...

 

There is always a risk when you bring in a new animal...but the odds of bringing in a devastating disease from another home, where the disease hasn't been observed is pretty slim.

 

Regardless...stress or new conditions may cause a disease to show itself...so a short semi-quarantine is likely a good idea.

 

With a new bird, for example, I would house it in a separate room...use separate dishes  - that are not washed together.  I would also feed the new bird last - and deal with it's care last. I would wash my hands thoroughly before and after caring for the new bird.  If nothing shows up in 3 weeks, or 6...or 12 (depends on you) it's likely nothing will.

 

I use a 3 week semi-quarantine.  By then the animal is quite used to it's new home and is settling in.  If something was going to show up, it should by then.

 

There is always the danger that your home might be housing something that will affect the new animal too...and that won't show up until after the new animal is introduced to the existing conditions.  So a quarantine won't help if that's the case.



#4 wizzasmum

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 11:58 PM

I've seen it happen Rue, with devastating consequences. It's never something you should take for granted. More than once I've seen whole groups of tortoises lost. I'm afraid semi-quarantine is no more use than no quarantine at all. I have no experience of birds, but if you follow this rule of 'if nothing shows up after three weeks, six or twelve', with a tortoise then that's a huge gamble. We are not talking allergies etc in the home here, we are talking horrible incurable disease. Sorry to sound harsh, but that's the reality of things. I won't sell my babies to anyone who already has imported tortoises and haven't done for several years now. I also won't have rehomers here, but insist on rehoming them directly from their present homes to the new one, after very careful vetting, regarding other tortoises / animals.,

#5 gizmosmum

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 06:40 AM

By semi quarantine you mean short quarantine. How long would be full quarantine? So if disease can be dormant for years then quarantine wouldn't really protect existing tortoise anyway. You just have to do the best you can. What prompted the question was the holiday care issue. Tortoise keepers offering holiday care.

#6 wizzasmum

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:17 AM

That's what I meant, there us no such thing as semi quarantine. No, there is never any guarantee, but if you give them a full season in the new set up you have at least given anything lying under the surface more of a chance to appear, but it can pop up after ten - fifteen years in some cases. Never ever leave your tortoise with someone who takes them in for holiday care unless it's the breeder you bought it from or the person only has tortoises from the same source. Too much potential for cross contamination, plus the stress factor. If at all possible it's better to have a neighbour pop in to feed yours daily.

#7 mildredsmam

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 01:16 PM

By semi quarantine you mean short quarantine. How long would be full quarantine? So if disease can be dormant for years then quarantine wouldn't really protect existing tortoise anyway. You just have to do the best you can. What prompted the question was the holiday care issue. Tortoise keepers offering holiday care.

Most people say 6 months is enough, the tortoise trust say more along the lines of 12/18 months quarantine. :)

I would never use holiday care for any of my tortoises, this is just my opinion though, I would think it was too risky not knowing what torts had been there before mine, this would also work  the other way in taking in someone else's torts, im quite lucky as I can leave mine at home in their enclosure and my sister looks after them for me. :)



#8 wizzasmum

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 03:03 PM

Most people say 6 months is enough, the tortoise trust say more along the lines of 12/18 months quarantine. :)
I would never use holiday care for any of my tortoises, this is just my opinion though, I would think it was too risky not knowing what torts had been there before mine, this would also work  the other way in taking in someone else's torts, im quite lucky as I can leave mine at home in their enclosure and my sister looks after them for me. :)



Same here Karen, for many years I've only taken winter hols unless I can get a house sitter. It's finding someone wanting to be tort, fish and dog carer in exchange for a tiny country cottage for a couple of weeks lol. Once they are in hibernation (not the dog) it's no problem at all luckily.

#9 gizmosmum

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 03:06 PM

I'm working on neighbours children at the moment, hoping they'll take an interest.

#10 gizmosmum

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 03:51 PM

[. Never ever leave your tortoise with someone who takes them in for holiday care unless it's the breeder you bought it from or the person only has tortoises from the same source.
Hope you don't mind me going on but
I'm trying to understand why it would be OK to leave her with torts from same source. Could the tort not have picked up something in the meantime or are the pathogens/ germs specific to the tortoise family they came from.

#11 wizzasmum

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 05:54 PM

Be careful with children, it's not them knowing, but who they tell, who tells someone else. A well known breeder had all of her torts taken, obviously well organised and thought to be due to all the kids friends knowing ;) tortoise pathogens are quite complex. Incurable and usually fatal diseases like herpesvirus, cryptosporidium etc can lie dormant in whole collections for many years. These are not the sort of problems that are zoonotic, so most of the time stay within the confines of the place where they are kept. When other foreign pathogens are introduced suddenly, this lowers the immune system and can make the dormant pathogens spring into life. If the tortoise that visits has originally come from this source and not been around other tortoises, then it's unlikely that other serious pathogens will have been taken on board, otherwise it will have become ill and more than likely succumbed. Sorry, I'm not a vet or scientist so probably not explaining it very well. There are studies out there explaining it better though, one by the tortoise trust, deep in their archives somewhere.

#12 mildredsmam

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 02:45 AM

[. Never ever leave your tortoise with someone who takes them in for holiday care unless it's the breeder you bought it from or the person only has tortoises from the same source.
Hope you don't mind me going on but
I'm trying to understand why it would be OK to leave her with torts from same source. Could the tort not have picked up something in the meantime or are the pathogens/ germs specific to the tortoise family they came from.

Hi, to put it in more simple terms, tortoises from the same source like from a breeder are less of a risk of having some thing but not guaranteed, mixing your tortoise with others that you just don't know any history of makes the risk higher, so using some thing like a holiday care that's having different tortoises in left right and centre is a lot more risky, as viruses etc are passed from tortoise to tortoise but can also be passed by the person that handle's the tortoises, it's just a risk I wouldn't take, did you not think about this before you decided to have a tortoise. :)



#13 gizmosmum

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 06:11 AM

Hi, to put it in more simple terms, tortoises from the same source like from a breeder are less of a risk of having some thing but not guaranteed, mixing your tortoise with others that you just don't know any history of makes the risk higher, so using some thing like a holiday care that's having different tortoises in left right and centre is a lot more risky, as viruses etc are passed from tortoise to tortoise but can also be passed by the person that handle's the tortoises, it's just a risk I wouldn't take, did you not think about this before you decided to have a tortoise. :)

Yes, of course I thought of holiday care, if that's what you mean. It was all sorted but the lady who was my main holiday person has just had twins!! So I'm on my 2nd back up family now. The local lady I got her from did originally say she'd help as well, she has torts from same clutch. So there's all sorts of solutions available.
I am just interested in the way the quarantine thing works and passing on of pathogens.

#14 gizmosmum

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 06:12 AM

Be careful with children, it's not them knowing, but who they tell, who tells someone else. A well known breeder had all of her torts taken, obviously well organised and thought to be due to all the kids friends knowing ;) tortoise pathogens are quite complex. Incurable and usually fatal diseases like herpesvirus, cryptosporidium etc can lie dormant in whole collections for many years. These are not the sort of problems that are zoonotic, so most of the time stay within the confines of the place where they are kept. When other foreign pathogens are introduced suddenly, this lowers the immune system and can make the dormant pathogens spring into life. If the tortoise that visits has originally come from this source and not been around other tortoises, then it's unlikely that other serious pathogens will have been taken on board, otherwise it will have become ill and more than likely succumbed. Sorry, I'm not a vet or scientist so probably not explaining it very well. There are studies out there explaining it better though, one by the tortoise trust, deep in their archives somewhere.


Thanks sue, that makes it clearer.

#15 Rue

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 03:15 PM

I wasn't actually thinking of bringing a new import into a household...that would be of more concern.

 

Is that still done a lot?  With all the captive bred babies available?



#16 wizzasmum

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 05:22 PM

I don't know about Canada but it's worse than ever here in the UK. The loophole that is the EU makes it very easy now. It was banned in the early 80's but the EU made a laughing stock of it. It's actually easier and cheaper for traders to get papers than it is genuine breeders, very sad.
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#17 Rue

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 05:47 PM

That is very sad...from all sides (except those profiting of course...)...






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